The Neocon-Liberal Alliance

U.S. F-16s return to Aviano air base in Italy after a Libyan mission / DoD photo

Stephen Walt — now of Harvard and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and formerly of Princeton, the University of Chicago and the Pentagon’s Institute of Defense Analyses — obviously has a blue-ribbon foreign-policy pedigree. That’s what makes his argument this week that George W. Bush and Barack Obama are fundamentally rooted in the same view of the world — and what to do about it — so interesting:

The only important intellectual difference between [Bush's] neoconservatives and [Obama's] liberal interventionists is that the former have disdain for international institutions (which they see as constraints on U.S. power), and the latter see them as a useful way to legitimate American dominance. Both groups extol the virtues of democracy, both groups believe that U.S. power — and especially its military power — can be a highly effective tool of statecraft. Both groups are deeply alarmed at the prospect that WMD might be in the hands of anybody but the United States and its closest allies, and both groups think it is America’s right and responsibility to fix lots of problems all over the world. Both groups consistently over-estimate how easy it will be to do this, however, which is why each has a propensity to get us involved in conflicts where our vital interests are not engaged and that end up costing a lot more than they initially expect.

Read the full thing.

Related Topics: libya. stephen walt, National Security
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  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    This wil be very useful when the inevitable debate pops up over who represents “the center” as opposed to “extremists” It also helps highlight how the real split in this country isn’t actually between the left and right. It’s between the Village on one side and the TPers and DFH’s on the other.

    Oddly enough, this split only becomes apparent when there’s a Democrat in the White House!

  • michaelfury

    “’The terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 are still at large and plotting,’ he said, echoing Mr. Bush’s oft-repeated refrain.”

    caw caw

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/the-ones-who-attacked-us/

  • conversets

    Bullsh!t.

    Bush intentionally lied to get the country into Iraq for purposes that had nothing to do with “democracy.”

    Obama is not using the military as an “effective tool of statecraft.” He has purposely limited the mission in Libya and will, once the playing field is level and as he has in other middle eastern countries over the past months, allow the people of Libya to determine their own destinies.

  • http://gum0nshoe.wordpress.com gumOnShoe

    Obama is not a liberal. Right? I mean, do we have to keep going over this?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Yes. This has been another edition of easy answers to easy questions.

    I’m also on record (though I can find it) of stating that anyone who thinks that Obama represents the “Peace Candiditate” is clearly clueless.

  • http://shortplaysaboutrealpeople.wordpress.com Michael Maiello

    Actual liberals oppose most, if not all, U.S. military action abroad. There is no such thing as a “liberal interventionist.”

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks
  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Well, I think there’s a pretty big difference between rank and file Democrats & their foreign policy graybeards. (Here, Glenn Greenwald looks at some gaps between views of all Americans, all Democrats, and party elites & resulting policies. Stephen Walt has something to say about that; maybe it’ll even show up on Swampland someday. http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2008/07/20/israel & http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/01/02/israel ). “Liberal interventionists” may (or may not, I don’t really know) have centimeter-deep grass-roots support, but they do have influence in the Democratic Party.
    -
    As to the column, Walt’s perspective is too limited. There really is no comparison between a response to the humanitarian crisis in Libya and the efforts of the adminitration in which Wolfowitz served to gin up a fake crisis in order to scare Americans into intervening. As Walt points out, the US is acting today with concern for legality and legitimacy in a way tat it didn’t in invading Iraq.
    -
    What’s more, there’s a big difference between a No Fly Zone set up to prevent Benghazi from meeting a fate like Hama, and invading & occupying a country for a decade. NATO will apparently take control of the NFZ, and will not engage in bombing raids. We have in the past enforced a NFZ for humanitarian reasons for over a decade.
    -
    Walt’s comparison doesn’t hold up.

  • http://grapemusing.blogspot.com/ grape_crush

    I guess Walt’s thoughts are interesting, if you really don’t think about them yourself.

    “Both groups extol the virtues of democracy, both groups believe that U.S. power — and especially its military power — can be a highly effective tool of statecraft.”

    ‘Liberal’ or ‘neocon’ labels aside, does anyone not think that?

    “Both groups are deeply alarmed at the prospect that WMD might be in the hands of anybody but the United States and its closest allies…”

    ‘Liberal’ or ‘neocon’ labels aside, does anyone not think that?

    “…both groups think it is America’s right and responsibility to fix lots of problems all over the world.”

    I don’t know of anyone who thinks that.

    Read the full thing.

    Okay…too many “What ifs?” not enough “What has happened to this point…oh, and:

    One reason that the Bush administration could stampede the country to war in Iraq was the apparent ease with which the United States had toppled the Taliban back in 2001.

    I would say that 9/11 and the false threat of terrorist attacks performed with Iraqi WMDs were of more import.

    But what do I know? I don’t have a ‘blue-ribbon foreign-policy pedigree.’

  • 53_3

    This is a subject that I would like to see Stuart comment on.
    .
    What he has to say might be interesting….

  • http://grapemusing.blogspot.com/ grape_crush

    U.S. F-16s return to Aviano air base in Italy after a Libyan mission / DoD photo

    Well, that nixes the ‘b-b-but Obama didn’t deploy an aircraft carrier’ portion of Thompson’s earlier post…not that he didn’t already negate it himself by implying that a no-fly zone pretty much wasn’t necessary…

  • rdw56

    Obama is Bush. He’s got the same people and same policies. The only difference is Obama had congress share ownership.

  • conversets

    Good job. You’ve given us a specific example of the “Neocon-[Extreme] Liberal Alliance,” both focused on Obama-bashing at any cost, with a propaganda machine called FoxDogLake.

  • conversets

    If you mean he doesn’t bow down and kiss the feet of the GHK cabal (Greenwald, Hamsher, Krugman), then the answer is yes, he’s not of the utopian left.

  • liberalmeltdown

    So the far left thought that Bush was Hitler and now they think that Obama is the same as Bush…
    .
    That puts the far left somewhere off the deep end.
    .
    Obama does not want US dominance; he wants the US to prop up the idealistic multicultural fantasy in his head. Egypt will prove out to be a disaster with the Muslim Brotherhood in power. A democracy where the majority wants to eliminate millions of people, isn’t such a pleasant fantasy, but it is a reality.
    .
    http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/March/Egypts-Christians-Fear-Radical-Muslim-Takeover/
    .
    http://www.aina.org/news/20110214193540.htm
    .
    Polls suggest most Egyptians have a positive view of the Brotherhood and support a broader and deeper role for Islam in public life. A Pew poll last year found that 85 percent of Egyptians believe Islam’s influence in politics is positive.

    A Zogby poll found that two-thirds of Egyptians want Muslim clerics to have more influence in the country’s politics. And 85 percent of Egyptians support the death penalty for those who convert from Islam.

  • liberalmeltdown

    The loons: Obama is not a liberal. The most liberal Senator prior to his election as president, and an expert at voting present, is no longer a liberal because he realizes that he will be a one term president and liberalism will be thrown on the compost pile of history.
    .
    The rest of the world has rejected the liberal world view. It just hasn’t fully caught up to you yet.
    .

  • conversets

    Tee hee! You’re funny!
    -
    Funny in a crazy/nutzo/wacko kind of way… but funny!

  • shepherdwong

    My reaction exactly. Liberals and neocons agree that water is wet…

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Flockin’ hell, mates! What’s with the labels? Liberal? Conservative? I don’t even know what these terms mean anymore, they’ve been so packaged, stylized, and debased by partisan demagoguery. The one thing I know, whatever American conservatism is, it aint the Republican
    Party, and whatever American liberalism is, it aint the Democratic Party. As far as I know, liberalism and conservatism are philosophies on social structure, constraints of power, and the relationship between the individual and the state. Both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party have no philosophy, no intellectually adept platform to fall back on. The mission, the agenda, the primary goal for both parties is and always has been power; power for the party, and once there, power for the government. Neoconservatism and Interventionism are merely the respective foreign-policy lexicon for both party’s incessant love affair with empire.

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