Are The Self-Destructing Japanese Reactors — And Their Many U.S. Siblings — Safe?

It wasn’t the nuclear fallout from Japan that was spooking Americans this week, but the sudden awareness that many of them were living too close for comfort to aging nuclear reactors similar to the ones imploding on the other side of the world. Three of the six General Electric Mark 1 boiling-water reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear complex in Japan were heading toward meltdown of one form or another, while a fourth was off-line but with stored fuel rods that could spew radiation as well (the other two are off-line, as well). Twenty-three of the 104 U.S. reactors are of the same basic design.

As details surrounding the blueprints of the GE-designed reactors spread across the country popped like homegrown IEDs, local utilities tried to calm residents’ concerns.

“The Japanese nuclear plants are in a much higher area of earthquake risk and magnitude than are TVA’s plants, and we obviously don’t have the risk of a tsunami like what we saw in Japan,” TVA spokesman Ray Golden told the Chattanooga Times Free Press. The TVA’s oldest reactor, Browns Ferry in Athens, Ala., shares its design with the Japanese reactors.

Three nuclear power plants near Philadelphia — Hope Creek in Salem County, N.J., Oyster Creek in Ocean County, N.J., and Peach Bottom in Lancaster County, Penn. — have the same design as the Japanese reactors. “All of our nuclear facilities are designed to American seismic and flood standards, based on their local geographies,” April Schilpp, a spokeswoman for operator Exelon, explained to the Philadelphia Inquirer. “It’s not a one-size fits all solution.”

“This will certainly be a learning experience for the industry,” Progress Energy spokesman Mike Hughes told the Triangle Business Journal in Raleigh-Durham, N.C., given the company’s two reactors at Brunswick, N.C. Both are GE’s Mark 1 containment design, which in the Japanese version features 6.7-inch-thick steel walls and 8.4-inch-thick steel roofs and floors. “This kind of review goes on all the time, and as you know, sharing information is a critical part of the industry worldwide.”

Thankfully, magnitude 9.0 earthquakes followed by a massive tsunami don’t occur all the time worldwide. But it’s becoming increasingly clear that it was that one-two punch that sent the Japanese nuclear reactors and their radioactive cores towards the abyss. It was the tidal wave that knocked out the power, and the backup power, needed to keep the cores cool by constantly pumping water through them. But make no mistake about it: most of the nuclear plants in the U.S. possess some of what doomed the Japanese reactors, from locations near coastlines or above fault lines, to electrical systems need to keep cooling water flowing. None is foolproof. The chances of a similar accident are remote, but not impossible. The assassination of John F. Kennedy was deemed remote, until it happened. So was 9/11, not to mention the Boston Red Sox winning the World Series.

“During the magnitude 9.0 earthquake (the fifth largest earthquake in recorded history), the GE Boiling Water Reactors performed as designed and initiated safe shut down processes,” General Electric said in a statement Tuesday. “We understand that the back-up generators performed as designed to begin the cooling process. Shortly thereafter, we understand that the tsunami disabled the back-up emergency generation systems.”

GE went on to add the following: “BWR reactors are designed to be able to safely shutdown in the event of an earthquake or other natural disaster.” Like much of the debate now underway, that’s a statement with the half-life of a half-truth: such a safe shutdown requires continued power to operate the pumps that cool the reactor, even after it is shut down.

Yet the Nuclear Regulatory Commission maintained that U.S. nuclear power plants are up to the challenges posed by Mother Nature. ”Even those plants that are located outside of areas with extensive seismic activity are designed for safety in the event of such a natural disaster,” it said in a statement. ”The N.R.C. requires that safety-significant structures, systems and components be designed to take into account the most severe natural phenomena historically estimated for the site and surrounding area.”

U.S. officials emphasized that U.S. reactors are designed to withstand only locally-relevant earthquakes, and that power and backup power resources are sufficient to keep the cores from overheating as they are in Japan. They also noted that the Japanese reactors’ 40-year old design is dated and any newer designs — including those not yet built — would be safer. But they plainly have no choice other than to say that.

“Right now we continue to believe that nuclear power plants in this country operate safely and securely,” NRC chairman Gregory Jackzko said Monday, in a less-than-forceful endorsement of the technology he is in charge of controlling. He made the comment during a White House briefing, which suggests how serious the situation is — or how seriously the Obama Administration believes it to be — or, perhaps and most likely, both. “All our plants are designed to withstand significant natural phenomena like earthquakes, tornadoes and tsunamis,” Jaczko added.

Lessons to be learned from Japan’s experience are “something we’ll deal with down the road,” Jaczko said. “But bottom line, right now, we believe that the plants in this country continue to be designed to a very high standard for seismic- and tsunami-type events.”

The nation’s top nuclear regulator appeared alongside Daniel Poneman, the deputy energy secretary. Poneman stood firm amid questions from reporters as to whether or not the fires burning in the Japanese plants have changed the Administration’s assessment that nuclear power is a key energy source for the nation’s future (atomic power currently generates about 20 percent of the nation’s electricity). “We view nuclear energy as a very important component to the overall portfolio we’re trying to build for a clean-energy future,” Poneman said.

On Tuesday, White House press secretary Jay Carney dismissed suggestions that because the U.S. might make changes in how it regulates its reactors because of what is happening in Japan, that it’s currently not doing all that is possible to keep them safe. “Every time there is new information that comes in from an actual event, you take that data and you analyze it and you examine whether or not it affects the models you have for safety and security of your facilities,” Carney said. “To suggest that everything is static forever obviously would be wrong, because there is new information to be gleaned from incidents.”

There was no sense that Washington would do what Berlin has done: take seven German nuclear reactors built before 1980 off-line until safety reviews of their operation are completed. Some Germans saw it as political theater — German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s decision to reverse a position taken by her coalition government last fall is seen as an effort to win votes in three regional elections over the next two weeks where her party is in trouble. “That responsibility lies with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission,” Carney said Tuesday. “They have made the judgment that our facilities are safe and secure…and that would apply to old reactors as well as newer ones.”

The World Association of Nuclear Operators, a safety group founded in 1989, said it was too early to discern the lessons of the Japanese meltdowns. “In these unpredictable and changing circumstances, it is dangerous to speculate on the situation at the affected nuclear power plants and certainly too early to draw conclusions,” said WANO chairman Laurent Stricker from the group’s London-based headquarters (it has regional offices in Atlanta, Moscow, Paris…and Tokyo). ““This is a tragedy in every sense of the word, and the immediate priority for Japanese authorities and our members is emergency response.”

The Nuclear Energy Institute, the industry’s trade group, said the 23 U.S. reactors, spread among 16 locations, based on the same reactor and containment design are Browns Ferry 1, 2 and 3 (Athens, Ala.); Brunswick 1 and 2 (Southport, N.C.); Cooper (Brownville, Neb.); Dresden 2 and 3 (Morris, Ill.); Duane Arnold (Palo, Iowa); Fitzpatrick (Scriba, N.Y.); Hatch 1 and 2 (Baxley, Ga.); Fermi (Toledo, Ohio); Hope Creek (Hancocks Bridge, N.J.); Monticello (Monticello, Minn.); Nine Mile Point 1 (Scriba, N.Y.); Oyster Creek (Forked River, N.J.); Peach Bottom 2 and 3 (Delta, Penn.); Pilgrim (Plymouth, Mass.); Quad Cities 1 and 2 (Cordova, Ill.); and Vermont Yankee (Vernon, Vt.).

The NEI said it is wrong to apply the type of earthquakes suffered in Japan and apply them to U.S. sites. “It is important not to extrapolate earthquake and tsunami data from one location of the world to another when evaluating these natural hazards,” it said. “These catastrophic natural events are very region- and location-specific, based on tectonic and geological fault line locations.”

Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., said Tuesday that he wants the NRC to decide quickly if U.S. nuclear plant standards needed beefing up following the events in Japan. “I think undoubtedly they’ll be taking a fresh look at the safety precautions and provisions that are in place, in light of whatever is learned from the Japanese,” said Bingaman, chairman of the energy and natural resources committee. “I hope that the Commission will quickly reach some conclusions about whether the safety precautions and provisions that it has insisted on are adequate for the future.”

Republicans were more measured. “I think we ought not to make American U.S. domestic energy policy in the wake of a catastrophic event,” Sen. Mitch McConnell, the minority leader, said Tuesday. “I’m reminded of all the discussion last year after the BP oil spill about the appropriateness of drilling in the Gulf. I just don’t think we ought to in the wake of a crisis be making long-term decisions about America’s energy sufficiency.” Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., didn’t think the Japanese accidents should delay a pending resumption of nuclear power plants in the U.S. “There’s been a pause for 15 years now,” he said, “and I think it’s time to continue on.”

Nuclear skeptics, including veteran nuclear-plant engineer David Lochbaum, now with the Union of Concerned Scientists, say the events in Japan suggest that the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission needs to bolster backup power requirements, as well as stepping up fire protection and emergency evacuation requirements.

The concerns go back 40 years. The GE design uses a less robust containment vessel that began generating concern among U.S. officials 40 years ago shortly after they were designed by General Electric. They were offered as a cheaper option to the more costly pressurized water reactors developed by Westinghouse and other companies. Joseph Hendrie was the top safety official at the Atomic Energy Commission back then. He would later become chairman of the AEC’s successor, the NRC.

Hendrie wrote on Sept. 25, 1972, that barring such designs was “attractive” because alternate designs have the “notable advantage of brute simplicity in dealing with a primary blowdown.” But he added that industry had so embraced the GE design that “reversal of this hallowed policy, particularly at this time, could well be the end of nuclear power….it would throw into question the continued operation of licensed plants…and would generally create more turmoil than I can stand thinking about.” Several documents on the design of the Mark I reactor have been posted online by the Nuclear Information and Resource Service, an anti-nuclear group based in Takoma Park, Md.

Concerns resurfaced 15 years later. “I don’t have the same warm feeling about GE containment that I do about the larger dry containments,’’ said Harold Denton, director of NRC’s Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation, in 1986. “There is a wide spectrum of ability to cope with severe accidents at GE plants,’” Denton told an industry gathering, according to the newsletter Inside N.R.C. “And I urge you to think seriously about the ability to cope with such an event if it occurred at your plant…There has been a lot of work done on those containments, but Mark I containments…you’ll find something like a 90 percent probability of that containment failing.”

The Mark 1s in the U.S. have been modified in the wake of those concerns to reduce pressure inside the containment vessel if temperatures rise too high. It is not known just what changes may have been made in the Japanese reactors since they began operating about four decades ago.

On Monday, GE issued a statement defending its design. “The BWR Mark 1 reactor is the industry’s workhorse with a proven track record of safety and reliability for more than 40 years,” GE said. “Today, there are 32 BWR Mark 1 reactors operating as designed worldwide. There has never been a breach of a Mark 1 containment system.” It is not yet known whether a more robust design would have fared any better in Japan, experts acknowledge.

Too much reactor design, critics say, is based on dealing with single-point failures that could be overwhelmed by an earthquake, or a tsunami, but not both. Backup power requirements of four to eight hours assume the existing electrical supply remains intact, for example, and simply needs to be reconnected.

The NRC said it was sending a team of experts to Japan to “conduct all activities needed to understand the status of efforts to safely shut down the Japanese reactors; better understand the potential impact on people and the environment of any radioactivity releases; if asked, provide technical advice and support through the U.S. ambassador for the Japanese government’s decision making process; and draw on NRC-headquarters expertise for any other additional technical requirements.”

It’s important to note reactors — even those of the same design — are rarely identical. But it’s also worth noting that the fact that four of the six reactors at Fukushima were all in danger highlights just how vulnerable the plants are to the unanticipated. Planning for the unanticipated is just as much art — imagination — as science.

Some design elements look dubious in hindsight. Each Mark 1 reactor at Fukushima, for example, has its own spent-fuel pool inside the reactor building, where exhausted rods are placed to cool down. If an explosion drains the pools, the spent fuel could ignite and release tremendous amounts of radioactivity into the atmosphere.

The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank in Washington, was quick to denounce lawmakers like Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass., who called for a halt in building new reactors in this country and likened what is happening in Japan to the Chernobyl meltdown in Ukraine in 1986. Chernobyl, a Heritage blog said, was “was caused by an inherent design problem and communist operator error that is not present at any of the nuclear plants in Japan.”

The political reaction to the Japanese events is only beginning to unfold. “The one place where I see a potential shift in the United States is in the group of environmental advocates who may have been willing in the past to compromise on nuclear energy as part of a broader deal on climate change, just like many of them were willing to do the same on offshore drilling,” said Michael Levi, a senior fellow on energy and the environmental at the Council on Foreign Relations. “This sort of event will make them a lot less comfortable doing that.” Levi cautioned that the so-called “nuclear renaissance” has “a lot of speed bumps still ahead…this adds another complication to it, but to predict that this will somehow decisively shift the course — I think it’s at best too early to make that judgment.”

Related Topics: earthquake, nuclear reactors, National Security
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  • sacredh

    “Chernobyl, a Heritage blog said, was “was caused by an inherent design problem and communist operator error that is not present at any of the nuclear plants in Japan.”

    That’s brilliant. Why didn’t they mention that a republican, flag-waving God caused the earthquake and tsunami in Japan? It probably was an inherent design error that contributed to the meltdown at Chernobyl. But what the hell does “communist operator error” have to do with it? Did a “Jesus loving democracy operator” cause Three Mile Island? The political nonsense is sickening.

  • sacredh

    “The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank in Washington, was quick to denounce lawmakers like Rep. Ed Markey, D-Mass., who called for a halt in building new reactors in this country and likened what is happening in Japan to the Chernobyl meltdown in Ukraine in 1986.”

    God Hates Flags.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “God Hates Flags.”
    .
    Always good, sometimes great.
    .
    Our sacred.

  • shepherdwong

    Planning for the unanticipated is just as much art — imagination — as science.
    .
    Ignoring the inevitable, even more so.
    .
    The plant was located next to a massive geological fault. On a beach. With inadequate protections for such a dangerous location.

  • bobcn1

    It’s true that most of the reactors in the US will never have to survive the one-two punch of an earthquake followed by a tsunami. But it’s also true that virtually all of them should be considered terrorist targets. Someday an attempt is going to be made to damage an American reactor, with the goal of creating an emergency similar to the emergencies currently happening in Japan.

    Will a 40 year old GE reactor survive being smacked by a fully fueled 747 moving at 300 mph? How resistant is the design of these 40 year old reactors to the evil creativity of terrorists who intend to damage them? The designs weren’t adequate for the earthquake-tsunami. Why should we believe that the 40 year old designs are adequate to withstand the efforts of terrorists intent on damaging them?

    For years we’ve heard industry spokesmen describe nukes as being as safe as kittens. What’s happening in Japan proves that an out of control reactor disaster is exceedingly dangerous and may be beyond our ability to control it.

    Given what we’ve learned from the disaster in Japan, all of the nukes in the US should be reexamined. The safety assurances we’ve been given have turned out to be wrong.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Add to that TEPCO’s horrible record re: transparency and the government’s dedication to partnership/not rigorous oversight/safety:
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashiwazaki-Kariwa_Nuclear_Power_Plant#2007_Ch.C5.ABetsu_offshore_earthquake

  • http://tisias.wordpress.com tisias

    A little psychological experiment for ya
    .
    “For example, consider a narrow deep river valley below a high dam, such that if the dam burst, the resulting flood of water would drown people for a long distance downstream. When attitude pollsters ask people downstream of the dam how concerned they are about the dam’s bursting, it’s not surprising that fear of a dam burst is lowest far downstream, and increases among residents increasingly close to the dam. Surprisingly, though, when one gets within a few miles of the dam, where fear of the dam’s breaking is highest, as you then get closer to the dam the concern falls off to zero! That is, the people living immediately under the dam who are certain to be drowned in a dam burst profess unconcern. That is because of psychological denial: the only way of preserving one’s sanity while living immediately under the high dam is to deny the finite possibility that it could burst.”
    .
    If we don’t prepare for the worst, we aren’t prepared at all.
    .
    We can consider the possibility that the reasonable tectonics of the Northwest prevent any chance of a massive earthquake occurring.
    .
    My point is, if we build nuclear power plants that have a possibility of having a meltdown, then we must have as many backup contingency plans as needed to eliminate the unreasonable, unexplainable, and the unstoppable.

    Food for thought, my insulin pump does about a hundred times more backup checks in a minute then some of those reactors.

  • sacredh

    I support building nuclear powerplants if they can be built safely. I’m not against building SAM sites next to them either. What I would like to see is a Manhattan Project to develop room temperature super conducting wire. We lose over 90% of the electricity that we send over the wires to bleed-off.

  • sacredh

    Thank you for the compliment Pnnto.

  • Paul-no not that one

    In the alternative I would like to see a Marshall Plan to rebuild the 19th/20th century energy plan we employ.

  • liberalmeltdown

    Hold your hands out like a scale.
    .
    On one hand you have the potential of nuclear power (good and bad). In the other you have people freezing and dying of heat stroke in the summer. Which has killed more?
    .
    It’s heat stroke and freezing to death.

  • afguy

    Those same “communists” are presently the only way we have of getting astronauts and supplies to the International Space Station, now that the Space Shuttle is going away.
    .
    Their largest cargo aircraft has been our only source of large airlift capability for rocket hardware for some years now.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    Nuclear energy is safe. It is also cheap and abundant.
    .
    Until there is an accident.
    .
    But even without accidents, there is the problem of disposing of the waste, the unspent rods, etc.
    .
    I’ve wondered at the world’s obsession with nuclear energy ever since Three Mile Island. I remember the day that happened. I got up and got ready for school and came downstairs to see my mother sitting in front of the tv, crying. After she told me what happened, I didn’t want to go school. I wanted to stay home and listen to the news. Oddly, nobody at school was talking about the accident. A teacher even told me it wasn’t important because it was nothing more than somebody being incompetent at their job. But I wanted to debate the merits of nuclear of energy,
    .
    The relative ease in which nuclear energy is produced is not worth the danger it poses when the inevitable disaster strikes. And it will always happen, sometimes later rather sooner, but it is inevitable. Wind and solar is somewhat unpredictable, but always safe. And tires-to-energy (my city recently rejected such a plant) is safe, though it does cause pollution.
    .
    I don’t think we have much to fear as far Bob’s scenario involving terrorists flying planes into nuclear plants, but we have created a lot of enemies in the middle and else where in the past several years. Some of those enemies have missiles capable of reaching coastal nuclear reactors.
    .
    This country, indeed the developed world, needs to move away from the dangerous, unpredictable and volatile energy sources of nuclear, oil and coal and move toward solar and wind as the major sources.

  • afguy

    Conversely, if the turbine at your typical hydroelectric plant fails catastrophically, taking out part of the room that houses it, you take it out and put in a new one, and repair the structure, though it may take some time.
    .
    You don’t, however, have to move every living soul out of the area for 50 miles around for a couple of generations minmum, forbidding the consumption of any food or water from within the area during that time.
    .
    And, last time I checked, the steam plant didn’t produce a product during normal use that is extremely lethal, can’t be destroyed, can only be “stored”, and is lethal for the next several hundred years to anyone exposed to it.

  • sacredh

    afguy, you’re right. It’s the injection of irrevelevent political rhetoric that angers me. Was the operator at TMI a republican or a democrat? Was he/she religious or atheist? It means nothing. I find it hard to take someone seriously when they inject something they think may further their political agenda into a subject that has nothing to do with it. Politics are politics. They’re not nuclear science. It’s beyond ridiculous for them to say “communist operator”. For all we know the operator may have had dreams of living in a free and democratic society.
    .
    And what is the Heritage Foundation implying? That we don’t have design problems or the Japanese don’t? They all have design problems. Thast’s why they redesign everything, because improvements can always be made. They sound more like corporate shills than members of a think tank.

  • afguy

    We’ve got a nuclear processing plant in our area. It has had NO failures in its history.
    .
    Yet the ground water in the area is contaminated by radioactive waste and unuseable by any of the humans living in the area. And never will be.
    .
    The contamination plume has been traced all the way into the Ohio River.

  • sacredh

    OT, but speaking of things I can’t take seriously, I was just watching David Vitter on CNN talking about the Japanese nuclear power plants and our own. I see the guy and I think of diapers and hookers. It’s the same thing with Mark Spitzer (not diapers, just hookers). Just about the same with Jimmy Carter and the “Lust in my heart thing”. For years I thought “pussy” every time I saw him.

  • sacredh

    We’ve got one about 30 miles upriver.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Sacred, no reason to slang Olympic champions. Mark Spitz -> Eliot Spitzer

  • hippooath

    Billions of our tax money is required to build a power plant, that a power company can later run at enormous profits. Take those billions and give everyone a solar panel. Put together a plan and come up with the technology we need to stop relying on fossil fuels and nuclear power.

    Only problem is of course that there’s no massive profit. There’s not one single entity that make at least in the short term make massive amount of money.

    So it won’t be done. Instead our money – those taxes righties always b!tch about is used to help someone build a nuclear power plant on a fault line (see California).

    Brilliant.

    Like someone said on the radio, if a eartquake hit a solar farm or wind farm the stuff falls over and breaks, but it won’t require people to evacuate nor do they explode.

    You want to build up a industry? Give room for technology, built here in USA.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “For years I thought “pussy” every time I saw him.”
    .
    Could you tee it up any more for our friends on the right?

  • sacredh

    Thanks for the correction jcapan. I knew there was something wrong but it eluded me. Have you had any aftershocks in your area?

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Thank Buddha no, Sacred. For those who are interested, this Univ. of Edinburgh site is excellent. Have been checking it daily for over a decade now:
    .
    http://tsunami.geo.ed.ac.uk/local-bin/quakes/mapscript/demo_run.pl

  • sacredh

    Oops. Moderation hell again. Let me change it:
    .
    “Could you tee it up any more for our friends on the right?”
    .
    On the plus side, it shows that we do criticize our own. I still think “@sshole” everytime I see Bush or Cheney though. It all evens out in the end.

  • sacredh

    jcapan, I think I saw you say that power couldn’t be diverted from where you live because of a difference in the electrical supply? Japan isn’t standardized?

  • sacredh

    “Thank Buddha”
    .
    I have a large one sitting on my desk. I also have a cross with Jesus on it on my desk. I made a little tinfoil hat and stuck it on his head. There’s also an Apple Bonker from Yellow Submarine. I’m sure there’s a message in there somewhere. If anybody knows, please keep it to yourself.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    This article from the J-Times explains it better than I can:
    .

    Power supply from western Japan is also not workable, experts said.
    .
    “Kansai Electric Power Co. is eager to help out, but its capacity is limited,” Mikio Kitada, former executive of Kepco, told The Japan Times.
    .
    In the Meiji Era, eastern Japan built its electricity grid based on a German system that operated on cycles of 50 hertz. Western Japan opted to go with the American 60-hertz system. Because of this incompatibility, Kepco can’t redirect its power to Tepco.
    .
    http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110316a6.html

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    While the actual sequence of events in Japan will allow us to learn how reactors can fail, the truth is that none of the events have changed whether or not our reactors are safe.
    .
    Either they were safe before the quake and still are or they were unsafe before the quake and still are. I’m inclined to beleive that our continued use of nuclear power is quite unavoidable, particularly if we want to wean ourselves off fossil fuels, so we’d best learn as much as we can.

  • afguy

    Paul,
    .
    Supposedly, a truly “fail-safe” reactor design exists. Something built around the rods themselves that, if it breaks, reverts to a safe condition. I read about this yesterday but have lost the link to it
    .
    It’s just based on a non-GE design that, for financial reasons, we (and they) aren’t interested in pursuing or simply don’t know how to build.

  • afguy

    Only problem is of course that there’s no massive profit.
    .
    You just indirectly revealed why there’s so little large-scale R & D in the private sector. That’s all money down the drain, at first.
    .
    They’d MUCH rather wait for someone else (the gov’t, in the past) to spend money on THAT, then hand them the resulting technology to refine and develop into a product. No patent restrictions to overcome, either.
    .
    That’s one of the holes in the pure free-market “religion”. Even our vaunted “venture capitalists” are risk-averse to the point that they won’t want to finance years of research, with no promise of a return on that investment.
    .
    Research can involve a LOT of loss and failure.

  • afguy

    Found it!
    .
    It’s a Canadian design. The CANDU system.
    .
    http://www.americablog.com/2011/03/why-does-us-and-japan-refuse-to-use.html

  • liberalmeltdown

    Lets be serious. Solar produces 1% of our energy. If we spend billions each year for the next 10 years we might get to 10% by 2020. We have already spent billions and we are at 1%. Doesn’t seem to be working.
    .
    Wind? If you have never seen a wind farm, you have no concept of how many towers it takes to power a city. And what do you do when the wind doesn’t blow? Sit in the dark?
    .
    Green sounds great, except that it doesn’t work well enough to compete.
    .
    And 6.1, how to you generate steam for your “steam plant”? Coal, gas, or nuclear? Hydroelectric blocks up rivers with dams and in California you don’t have enough rivers to generate power. Same with the rest of the world.
    .
    Are you referring to the processing plant that used to process uranium during the cold war? For weapons?
    .
    That’s pretty misleading af.
    .
    http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2009/10/signs_of_renewal_hide_toxic_le.html
    .

  • abdullah69

    Apparently I am the first one on this thread to express concern for the victims of this disaster. Irrespective of the decisions and actions in the past, these people are at risk now and need all the help and support they can get.

  • lcky9

    There are a couple of things here to be considered.. I am NOT all that fond of Nuclear power biggest problem being the disposal of the waste as well as area’s where the sun doesn’t shine in the winter or wind is limited… I did hear however that there is a way to recycle the waste and reuse it ..something JIMMY CARTER passed a law against doing.. and I haven’t had the chance to find out why that was.. Nuclear power plants built on fault lines NOT a good idea.. no matter how new or modern they are..
    Right now we have a big problem.. We need energy..right now we have people who don’t seem to want to accept ANY energy BUT solar and or wind.. Truth is we have 45% of our energy coming from coal ( environmentalist say it’s to dirty.) 20% from Nuclear.. 20% natural gas about 9% from oil and the other 2% from solar or wind.. and solar and wind are NOT a good substitute.. How many wind mills would it take to run a large city? WHERE would you put them? WHAT about the birds who would get killed flying into them.. etc.. we have lots of coal.. can and has kept things thus far moving, has LESS dangerous waste and renews itself. we have plenty of natural gas but again the enviormentalist have issues with it..Lord only knows why.. and there’s OIL .. again we have plenty.. and it keeps RENEWING it self.. but we can’t drill on land..are forced to drill in deep water and when accidents happen like BP they dumbo’s in Washington wonder why..and regulate the industry forcing us to depend on foreign oil.. however.. they are will to hit the oil reserves .. you know the reserves that are there to protect our country.. so with the NUCLEAR PLANTS being old and dangerous.. coal being to dirty.. our own oil being horded.. and I am not sure whats up with the natural gas.. one thing we had better figure out.. WHICH one will it be.. We can find a fault with ALL of them but FACT is we NEED energy.. that is constantly regenerates.. or we will be living back in the stone age.. again even battery powered cars need to be charged..as well as your cell phones..ipods..etc.. and we already have to much WASTE with the batteries from them that can cause a problem.. So regardless of which power we use we had better make sure it’s AFFORDABLE.. or it’s the middle class and poor who will be doing without.. people like Micheal Moore.. or the elite politicians won’t be doing without to pay for ulitities it’s the taxpayers who will suffer..

  • abdullah69

    This is why TMI coincided with the end of the disco era. Once everyone starts glowing in the dark, then where exactly is the cachet?

  • sacredh

    TMI might have been God’s punishment FOR the disco era. That music truly was spawned by a devil with no taste whatsoever in music.

  • abdullah69

    On the contrary, there are many who believe disco was in fact God’s work, and that the classic “Disco Inferno” was eerily prescient of TMI.

  • abdullah69

    Also, as all scholars of Chernobyl know, once the true extent of the catastrophe at Chernobyl became apparent to the authorities, the first call for help was not to the UN but to the BeeGees.

  • apr2563

    jc: Any concerns about the drift of nuclear material across Japan? I heard that the winds are blowing east right now but are due to change this weekend, blowing south.

  • apr2563

    Life around the Hanford plant in Eastern Washington is always aglow. It is the largest nuclear waste dump site in the Western Hemisphere. It came on line as part of the Manhattan Project. Radioactive isotopes were regularly vented and carried by the wind over SE Washington.
    .
    The plant has been in the hands of GE and other private companies for years. They and the feds were compliant in hiding the dangers of the plant in regards to the air and Columbia River pollution.
    .
    My family moved out of range of the plants pollution when I was 4. However, I have family who have suffered from thyroid and cancer problems for years.
    .
    I really have little faith in what the government or private industry tells us about nuclear energy.
    Nuclear plants are not only dangerous but extremely expensive to build. Take that money and use it to expand solar energy.

  • liberalmeltdown

    Here are some explosions at non-nuclear power plants and a fire at a solar plant in the Mohave Dessert.
    .
    http://www.failure-analysis-consultant.com/fires_and_explosions.html
    .
    No, the damaged plants in Japan aren’t safe.
    .
    The plants here are safe, just like gasoline storage tanks, refineries, and automobiles. Until…

  • hippooath

    Burning solar plants don’t make the immediate area around them unlivable. Exploding gasoline storage tanks don’t require 10-50 miles around them to be evacuated.
    .
    Could we find something similar to compare this to? Like…I dunno. Nuclear power being perhaps the most dangerous things we can possible get energy from unless we manage to get energy from hybrid flesh eating bacterias and they somehow escape?
    .
    You cannot with a straight face claim that we should fear a solar plant the same way as we fear a nuclear power plant.

  • newfreedomblog

    Don’t tax the liberal minds so much, they will explode eventually like the nuclear reactors in Japan, and blood shoots from their eyes thinking so much.
    .
    Liberals believe in Solar, Wind, and Cow Farts as the source for all new and green energy. Problem is cows are hard to run down to shove a hose up their butts, Wind is so unpredictable you would never know when you could do anything and solar, doesn’t even work enough to charge up a watch battery.
    .
    Now gas, we have at least a 100 times reserve of natural gas in the ground compared to all of the other oil reserves in the world. Cleaner than coal or oil. We have the technology to use it. But what do we do? NOTHING

  • afguy

    Wong state, meltdown. Therefore, wrong plant.
    .
    The one we have here, in west Ky, has as its main task for the forseeable future, cleanup of all of the by-products and surface contamination left over.
    .
    But the point made still stands. You don’t just put the “waste” from a nuclear plant in the trash or cart it off to the local landfill and forget about it.

  • michaelfury

    “The assassination of John F. Kennedy was deemed remote, until it happened. So was 9/11″

    Odd syntax. So who had the remote on 9/11, Mr. T?

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2010/11/16/critical-mass/

  • michaelfury

    “Thus the whirligig of time brings in his revenges.”

    - Shakespeare

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/by-their-fruits/

  • afguy

    I did hear however that there is a way to recycle the waste and reuse it ..something JIMMY CARTER passed a law against doing.. and I haven’t had the chance to find out why that was..
    .
    The program was cancelled because it was extremely expensive and produced weapons-grade plutonium as the product.
    .
    The process also doesn’t actually get rid of any radioactive materials but does, as the author of the article I read, simply shuffle them around. You still have materials you have to store after you’re completed.
    .
    In order to have a process that can get rid of ALL the nuclear waste, you need breeder reactors, something that, to this point, NO ONE has been able to build.

  • kathy

    The significant danger comes from older plants with the design flaws that these Japanese reactors have (newer designs are much easier to shut down).

    Here in Vermont we’ve been having a vigorous fight over our nuclear plant called Vermont Yankee (113 miles from Boston), as the license runs out next year and the state legislature, (lead by the president pro tem of the senate who has subsequently become governor) voted to force the plant to close down once its current license runs out.

    The NRC just renewed the license, but they have never failed to renew a license in this country. Nevertheless, in the contract the owners signed when they took over this plant they agreed to abide by any decision by the legislature. This is probably going to court.

    The principal concern Vermonters have had with this plant has been the lack of truthfulness from the plant about problems (leaks? We don’t have no stinking leaks. subsequent testing showed tritium leaks. Oh, those leaks.)

    A column or two, with pictures, can be found by searching this blog (of a state senator): vermontdailybriefing.com.

    Today’s relevant quote: “Without approval from the Legislature for a license re-extension, Entergy’s last, best hope for continuing to operate Vermont Yankee was the Good Neighbor gambit: a charm offensive, backed by ubiquitous but easygoing PR, depicting the company as a hard-working, rule-following corporate citizen. Granted, it was always going to be a heavy lift to maintain this highly burnished image while still fighting the State of Vermont in court over jurisdiction in the re-licensing matter. But imagine now, post-Japan — where reactors are at this writing still exploding, melting down and otherwise going rogue — imagine now that Entergy, which operates a plant of the same make and generation as those disintegrating in Japan, stiff-arms the Legislature and insists on continuing operations over the clear statutory objection of the State Senate? Ever have a neighbor like that?

  • http://tisias.wordpress.com tisias

    Do any of you guys watch the NBC show, “The Event”?
    .
    I found it only slightly creepy that the entire episode, which was already made way before the earthquake, is entirely focused on nuclear meltdowns and Chernobyl with an eerie similarity to the current events of the past several days.
    .
    Conspiracy? No. But definitely creepy.

  • shepherdwong

    The concerns go back 40 years. The GE design uses a less robust containment vessel that began generating concern among U.S. officials 40 years ago shortly after they were designed by General Electric. They were offered as a cheaper option to the more costly pressurized water reactors developed by Westinghouse and other companies.

  • theotherjimmyolson

    The only way out of this dilemma is for you to consume less energy.

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