Fat AND Dumb

Physical fitness to me is a learned life style that encompasses nutrition, resistance training, aerobics and proper rest.

And don’t how much the entrance exam has changed since I got drafted way back during Vietnam, but I cannot believe it has gotten substantially harder. One would have had to have been functionally illiterate to fail that test. If 23% are now failing it the US’s educational system is in far worse trouble than advertised.

More evidence of how bad our public education system really is. Until we fix the problems in our public education system, it will not get any better for our children.
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Teachers are not the problem. 95% of them try to do a good job. We have many good models of successful schools such as religious schools and school in rural areas that are doing an excellent job.
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We need to reduce union control of our education system, fire the 5% of teachers who are not up to the job, get back to basics and teach moral value and work ethics in our schools.

OT: Live stream of DADT repeal signing here:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/live?utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=wh.gov

Who remembers Sputnik? What’s it going to take for us to actually value education and stop playing for the lowest common denominator when it somes to news coverage?

Here’s a clue. Every time there’s a story about Sarah Palin in the magazine the national IQ drops another 2 points.

Concering the fat part of things. This must have changed in the 20 years since I hit Army boot camp. I was a skinny twerp that put ON weight there. But there were quite a few tubbies in my training platoon. It wasn’t a problem back then. They surely knew what they were in for when they signed up, and for the most part did just as well as the ones who showed up fit, barring a slower bell curve to operational fitness. Getting the out of shape people up to speed was a job not just for the DI’s but also everyone of us who didn’t want to get singled out for special attention. As far as I am concerned a man or woman with a desire to to serve the country in that way and is toting some extra baggage should be welcome to serve. It’s nothing a summer of torturous weeks in basic training can’t fix. That beign said, you CAN be too fat for military service. just head on over to wal-mart if you don’t believe!

Guess we’ll have to fight fewer wars. Looks like junk food and crap TV have accomplished what ethics and reason could not.

^ L O L

Now comes word that 23 percent can’t pass the military’s initial entrance examination.
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So how does this compare to the failure rate in previous decades? Also, what are the demographics of those taking the entrance exams, compared to previous decades?
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I would like to see how much different it is from when I took the exam back in 1987..

That’s right, it’s the teacher unions fault we have dumb children, not parents who let ignorance be the norm.
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Wisdom according to 3x.
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Seriously…

It is interesting this information comes out this week when Sarah Palin chose to critiicize Michele Obama for promoting healthy eating. . In the bizarre world of Sarah that is government interference. .

Let’s get rid of the 5% of the teachers who teach creepy things like evolution and global warming. These are fictions anyway……… seriously (not).

Hippo,
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If I said the sky at night was black you would argue it was not. You are a Total Partisan.
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I didn’t say parents were not part of the problem. I will go so far as to say they probably at least 50% of the problem.
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The other 50% is the 5% incompetent teachers and unions that operate purely for the benefit of the union and teachers rather than what’s best for our educational system and the children.
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If you don’t understand that than you have your head in the sand.
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Teachers for the most part are not over paid but the retirement programs that have been negotiated by the unions are taking way too much money out of funds that should be going to educate our children.

I passed in 2003 and I was 32 years old I was never athletic.
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I was falsely told that I had a heart condition and, therefore, refused.

gwbc,
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“In the bizarre world of Sarah that is government interference.”
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In the bizarre world of Reality that is government interference.
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But Liberals all love Big Government.

“Teachers for the most part are not over paid but the retirement programs that have been negotiated by the unions are taking way too much money out of funds that should be going to educate our children.”
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So, if the pension is good then they will give up all of their integrity and teach students very poorly for no known reason.
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You do know how well schools did nationally when you were young in the 1940s?
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They didn’t get tested. So, if a guy finishes high school class of 1950 and couldn’t read his diploma, that was fine. There was a factory down the street happy to take him on as an employee.
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You have no basis to say that schools are getting worse.
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You can and should say that schools are not improving to catch up with technology.

This is the end result of liberals’ programs and policies and their control of public education. They have successfully dumbed down the population of America over the last few decades. The masses are far easier to control (subjugate) and are far more receptive to the constant bombardment of leftist propaganda and political correctness by the media and Hollywood.

3X,
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Michelle Obama is not a part of the government.
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You are aware that she is first lady and her request that children eat healthier foods is no more biding than when Nancy Reagan wagged her finger and told my generation to “Just say no. And go. And tell” wasn’t East German Stasi style forcing people to turn one another in.
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(Nancy Reagan was so annoying that hearing her tell me to say no to drugs made me consider trying a few drugs- but I didn’t.)

Conservative budget cuts dumbing down education has made it so easy for Fox News to manipulate people, that Fox really ought to give tip to the politicians who cut out gym classes and History classes for the chance to giveaway tax cuts.
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Retardomax, you are perfect example of what the public education system has been doing to dumb people down.

I think that it’s all Rush Limbaugh’s fault. After all, he’s fat and dumb, too…

did 3xfire3 just substitute ‘Reality’ for ‘Sarah’?
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Tell me he didn’t do that…

Now let me get this straight:
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Sarah Palin complains that Michelle shouldn’t be promoting healthy eating habits.
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Which makes it our fault that some kids are obese.
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hmmm…

“If you don’t understand that than you have your head in the sand.” — 3xfire3 @ 3.3
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“If I don’t understand that than I have sand in my head.”
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There. Fixed.

“The other 50% is the 5% incompetent teachers and unions that operate purely for the benefit of the union and teachers rather than what’s best for our educational system and the children.”
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3x,
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I don’t disagree with what you say because it’s you. I disagree because of the above which illlustrates how you have to cornhole logic in order to put forward your regular form of ‘wisdom’.
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So 95% of all teachers are good (according to you) and 5 are not (again, according to you and it’s the unions fault btw).
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So 23% failing what should be a fairly ‘easy’ thing to pass (I understand that they don’t want dummies but they’re not looking for rocket scientist either manning a machine gun). 50% percent of the problem is the 5% percent bad teachers leading to 23% failure rate.
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Here’s an idea. STOP, watching, FOX. You don’t need to watch CNN or anything else. Just get the data, analyse without ideologue prejudice and form an opinion based on that.

You guys really need to see ‘Waiting For Superman’…
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Teachers unions are actually a large problem in today’s US education system.
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How many lawyers/doctors get fired/disbarred/license revoked? It’s 1 in 50 (on average).
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How many teachers get fired? It’s less than 1 in 1000.
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This is mainly because the teachers unions, probably the most powerful in the US, protect the teachers; most bad teachers aren’t allowed to be fired; the public education system would get sued for breaching contracts.
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Instead, crappy teachers are shuffled around different schools. Our children are the ones who suffer.
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I’m in my 20′s, and have many, many friends going into teaching. They all hate the unions – from the inside, it is completely clear that the unions care far more for the teachers and keeping them employed than the people the teachers are working for – the kids.
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I’m a liberal, and this isn’t, or shouldn’t be, a partisan issue. Education reform and rethinking the way we deal with teachers unions should be much higher on the list.

Here’s my experience with the AF testing system.
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In 1968, I took the AQE battery on enlistment. Scored in the 95th percentile on Mechanical, Electronic, (and a third one-General?) and 90th on Administrative.
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Fast forward to 1988 and getting ready to separate. I had never re-tested on that battery of tests but, when I got a look at my personnel records, I found I was now in the 99th and 95th percentiles respectively.
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In comparison to contemporaries (which is what a percentile scoring implies – comparative, rather than absolute) – I was now rated higher.
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Whatever has been happening has been going on for a couple of generations.

Patrick,
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“You have no basis to say that schools are getting worse.”
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I see you are confused as usual. I never said that schools are getting worse.
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Try debating something I actually said not something I didn’t say.

When I was growing up in a midsized industrial city, I walked to school every morning, after 3 hours of classes, I walked home for lunch. Then back to school for another 3.5 hours. We had morning and afternoon recess and gym twice a week.
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Then came the mid ’70s. First lunch was cut to half its time and we told we had to carry. No more walking home for lunch. Gym was a sporatic event. And the school hours were shortened by an hour. When I got into high school, we didn’t even have text books for chemistry class.
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My neice is now in the same public system I attended. She’s in the fifth grade and hasn’t had a single history, science or social studies class. The school concentrates on only reading and math. And this is a school district that has one of highest paid superintendent in the country.
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Republicans like to rail against the pay and benefits of the teachers, but what about the nearly $1M wasted on the salary and benefits for a single position that doesn’t do anything at all in helping the youth of today to learn?

Megatron,
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My compliments. You analysis is correct.
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One of my sons, who is 41 years old, is an Elementary Public School Principal. My daughter is a 4th grade teacher in a public school. My oldest granddaughter is in Early Childhood Education. My daughter and son both send their children to private catholic schools because they know they will get a better education there. My son can tell you horror stories about the negative effects of the union on his school.
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Many liberals do agree with your comments. The people debating me here on the Swamp are Extreme Liberal Ideologues. There politics is really not Liberal. It is much closer to Socialism than to the Liberal views of most American Liberals.

How can things be getting worse, when the progressives have been in control of public education for the last 50 years?
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It must be the parents fault.
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Or, maybe Global Warming is causing a genetic mutation.
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It’s George Bush’s fault.
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Can’t be the liberal agenda of promoting self esteem through non accomplishment. The unionization of teachers, the resistance to standardized testing, the removal of corporal punishment, awarding tenor to teachers after only 2-3 years, the resistance to charter schools, no mandatory PE for k-12.
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Kids are fat because of computers, TV, electronic games, and junk food. Same reason that their parents are fat.

I agree that their is way to many administrators. They do nothing for a child’s education. They do like to have conferences and conventions, in the best hotels of course.

“I never said that schools are getting worse.”
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Okay, then, if you do not disagree that schools are getting better, then we are on the right track, but slowly.
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If we are on the right track and that track includes teachers reluctantly accepting student testing and evaluations of the teachers tied at least in part if not primarily on their test scores, then pushing out the teachers union would be a big mistake.
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BTW: You were a navy man. How well did you do on your exam? I was 32 and had already gotten 4 years of excellent college behind me first so, even though I was half asleep when they gave me the exam at about 6:30 in the morning, I got 95%. My recruiter said it was too bad I didn’t apply when I was under 27 years old since I was well within the range for Officer’s Candidate School. Don’t tell me, you are going to claim you get better than I did.

“How can things be getting worse, when the progressives have been in control of public education for the last 50 years?”
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That’s a wonderful question for 1980.
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In 2010 this is the question:
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“How can things be getting worse, when the CONSERVATIVES have been in control of public education for the last 30 years?”
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First: An obsession with prayer in school during the 1980s instead of preparing students for life.
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Second: An obsession with Darwin in the late 1990s through the present.
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Third: An obsession with Climate change from 2000 until the present.
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Fourth: Cutting Federal funding for many programs for public schools 1980 until the present causing schools to chose between a gym teacher and a history teacher (with kids getting fatter and fatter evry year).
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Fifth: Demonizing the teacher’s unions rather than coordinating with them.
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Sixth: Making exams about a means to fire teachers as fast as possible instead of using this to calculate who is doing an outstanding job and getting those outstanding teachers to retrain those mediocre and poor teachers how to become excellent.
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“…the removal of corporal punishment…”
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Meltdown, you really do want a spanking, don’t you?

Hey, if the right wing could spend the late 1990s blaming Bill Clinton for why teenagers were having oral sex, then, it would be equally fair to blame Rush Limbaugh for showing the youth of today that being a fat, obnoxious, dumb drug addict is the best way to wealth and fame.
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Sounds fair to me.

Congratulations Pat, you are exactly wrong, as usual.
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The teachers have received everything they wanted or ever asked for. Smaller classrooms, more taxes and the results have steadily gotten worse.
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If there are less funds available, it is because the administrators at all levels of government and the education department have stolen the money from our children to pad their wallets and their expense accounts.
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The left is obsessed with the THEORIES of Evolution and Global Warming. Note how since it’s no longer getting hotter, it’s now “Climate Change.”
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“The teachers have received everything they wanted or ever asked for. Smaller classrooms, more taxes and the results have steadily gotten worse.”
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“When Does Small Class Size Help Student Achievement?

Studies over the last twenty years have provided researchers and educators with the opportunity to observe reduced-size classrooms and gather data on student achievement. Class-size reduction has been deemed successful when students show marked improvement in learning through formal evaluations.

Success is most likely for students in smaller classes under the following conditions:

•When the student-teacher ratio is reduced significantly.

No one is completely sure how small classes should be to maximally benefit students. Project STAR, a leading study from Tennessee, defined small classes as those with 13-17 students. Regular-sized classes were defined as those with 22 or more students. When tested, students in small classes consistently outperformed students in regular-sized classrooms (Pate-Bain, Achilles, and others 1992). The most notable student gains came from low-achieving students with impoverished socioeconomic backgrounds (McRobbie 1998; Illig 1996). In light of these results, many states have begun shrinking class size to 17-20 students per teacher.

Clearly, a drop from 35 students to 18 students is dramatic, and some specialists believe class-size reduction must be this substantial before significant student gains will be evident. Merely reducing class size from 25 down to 20 is an ineffective form of implementation. ”
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http://eric.uoregon.edu/publications/policy_reports/class_size/student_achievement.html
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Once again, psychiatric meltdown, when you want facts, look for experts who have done studies on these things, not by examining your colon with your face and posting what you find.
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Get your head out of your ass and look at reality.

“The left is obsessed with the THEORIES of Evolution and Global Warming.”
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“theory
[thee-uh-ree, theer-ee]
–noun, plural -ries.
1.
a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein’s theory of relativity.
2.
a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
3.
Mathematics . a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory.
…
—Can be confused:  hypothesis, law, theory (see synonym note at this entry ).

—Synonyms
1. Theory, hypothesis are used in non-technical contexts to mean an untested idea or opinion. A theory in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena: the theory of relativity. A hypothesis is a conjecture put forth as a possible explanation of phenomena or relations, which serves as a basis of argument or experimentation to reach the truth: This idea is only a hypothesis.”
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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theory
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” Warning: Gravity is “Only a Theory”

by Ellery Schempp

All physics textbooks should include this warning label:

“This textbook contains material on Gravity. Universal Gravity is a theory, not a fact, regarding the natural law of attraction. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered.”

The Universal Theory of Gravity is often taught in schools as a “fact,” when in fact it is not even a good theory.”
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http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p67.htm
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“liberals” – aka sane people by your definition – are far more concerned with teaching children as early as preschool about the theory of gravity.
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As a young boy, like most young boys, I loved to climb high in trees and everywhere else I could climb and those teachers were completely and totally obsessed with the theory of gravity.

The funniest thing about you is that you actually take yourself seriously.
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I attended classes with over 30 students, nobody suffered. Back then students actually HAD to learn and achieve to be passed on the the next grade level.
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You might want to pass your classroom theory onto universities where they pack 300 students into those auditorium classes.
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Please explain how learning is better in a class of 15 or a class of 30 if both classes are sitting in their seats attentively listening to an instructor. Do the extra 30 ears absorb the sound, the teacher’s voice, so that the other 15 children are left with dead air?
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http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2010/05/19/latest-study-reducing-class-size-doesnt-benefit-student-achievement/
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This study from Harvard shows that in the case of Florida where smaller class sizes were mandated, there was no benefit.

Most educators teach gravity as a law, not a theory.
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A theory should only be accepted when there is no evidence against it. There is plenty of evidence against man made global warming. A casual observation of a temperature graph since the last ice age for example. Hence, the need “to hide the decline.” When the cyclical climate of earth has been warming for the last 10,000 years, it doesn’t really take a genius to project that the trend will continue.
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As for evolution, there a many holes and gaps in species development that are not explained by this theory. Certainly, even an imbecile like yourself should agree.

Where do you think I learned much of what I learned?
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Harvard.
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The study I cited and quoted for you above said:
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“Clearly, a drop from 35 students to 18 students is dramatic, and some specialists believe class-size reduction must be this substantial before significant student gains will be evident. Merely reducing class size from 25 down to 20 is an ineffective form of implementation.”
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The study you cited was of a specific group:
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“During this time, average class size was reduced by about three students. ”
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The studies do not contradict one another. They agree that small reductions in class sized produce negligible results but the Harvard study does not include any examples of large class size reductions.
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“You might want to pass your classroom theory onto universities where they pack 300 students into those auditorium classes.”
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At Boston University, where I transferred into Harvard Extension from, there were a few 300 student auditoriums. I remember it quite vividly. However, unlike you, by the ages 18 to 22 I was far, far motivated and serious about my education than when I was an eight year old.
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Class sizes among the highly motivated and serious young adult students is a different topic than the education of children.
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Obviously you have trouble reading.

If I understand correctly, the use of crystal meth among other stimulants cause delusions of grandeur.
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You, just sitting there at your computer with no education in climatology nor evolutionary biology have found out about these massive gaps.
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On evolution, since the 1850s has been proven bullet proof.
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Climate change, only discovered in 1967 have not found any credible holes even though the oil industry does pay very large sums of money to anybody who can claim doubt.

“Most educators teach gravity as a law, not a theory.”
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\”Definition of LAW
a (1) : a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority (2) : the whole body of such customs, practices, or rules (3) : common law b (1) : the control brought about by the existence or enforcement of such law (2) : the action of laws considered as a means of redressing wrongs; also : litigation (3) : the agency of or an agent of established law c : a rule or order that it is advisable or obligatory to observe d : something compatible with or enforceable by established law e : control, authority ”
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Most educators speak in the vernacular, not in the technical.
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It can just as easily be, in vernacular, called the Law of evolution or the Law of Climate Change.
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Of course people like you, in your confusion, would run to your congressmen and demand that the “law of evolution” be overturned.

“The left is obsessed with the THEORIES of Evolution and Global Warming. Note how since it’s no longer getting hotter, it’s now “Climate Change.”"
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That’s rich. Evolution is a theory? I guess it would seem that way to someone who believes in the proven facts of talking snakes and a boat that held two of every species on earth. People can believe whatever they want to, Science deals in facts. You don’t get to make up your own facts and claim they’re on the same level as actual evidence. Here’s the deal. We won’t teach science in your churches and you keep your religious beliefs where they belong. In your churches. They are not interchangeable.
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“Funding of global warming skeptics

ExxonMobil has been accused of paying to fuel skepticism of anthropogenic global warming.[45][46]

ExxonMobil has drawn criticism from the environmental lobby for funding organizations critical of the Kyoto Protocol and skeptical of the scientific opinion that global warming is caused by the burning of fossil fuels. According to Mother Jones Magazine, the company was a member of one of the first such skeptic groups, the Global Climate Coalition, founded in 1989.[47] According to The Guardian, ExxonMobil has funded, among other groups skeptical of global warming, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, George C. Marshall Institute, Heartland Institute, Congress on Racial Equality, TechCentralStation.com, and International Policy Network.[48][49] ExxonMobil’s support for these organizations has drawn criticism from the Royal Society, the academy of sciences of the United Kingdom.[50] The Union of Concerned Scientists released a report in 2007 accusing ExxonMobil of spending $16 million, between 1998 and 2005, towards 43 advocacy organizations which dispute the impact of global warming.[51] The report argued that ExxonMobil used disinformation tactics similar to those used by the tobacco industry in its denials of the link between lung cancer and smoking, saying that the company used “many of the same organizations and personnel to cloud the scientific understanding of climate change and delay action on the issue.”[51] These charges are consistent with a purported 1998 internal ExxonMobil strategy memo, posted by the environmental group Environmental Defense, stating

Victory will be achieved when

* Average citizens [and the media] ‘understand’ (recognize) uncertainties in climate science; recognition of uncertainties becomes part of the ‘conventional wisdom’ …
* Industry senior leadership understands uncertainties in climate science, making them stronger ambassadors to those who shape climate policy
* Those promoting the Kyoto treaty on the basis of extant science appear out of touch with reality.[52]

ExxonMobil has been reported as having plans to invest up to US$100m over a ten year period in Stanford University’s Global Climate and Energy Project.[53]

In August 2006, the Wall Street Journal revealed that a YouTube video lampooning Al Gore, titled Al Gore’s Penguin Army, appeared to be astroturfing by DCI Group, a Washington PR firm with ties to ExxonMobil.[54][55]

In January 2007, the company appeared to change its position, when vice president for public affairs Kenneth Cohen said “we know enough now—or, society knows enough now—that the risk is serious and action should be taken.” Cohen stated that, as of 2006, ExxonMobil had ceased funding of the Competitive Enterprise Institute and “‘five or six’ similar groups”.[56] While the company did not publicly state which the other similar groups were, a May 2007 report by Greenpeace does list the five groups it stopped funding as well as a list of 41 other climate skeptic groups which are still receiving ExxonMobil funds.[57]

On February 13, 2007, ExxonMobil CEO Rex W. Tillerson acknowledged that the planet was warming while carbon dioxide levels were increasing, but in the same speech gave an unqualified defense of the oil industry and predicted that hydrocarbons would dominate the world’s transportation as energy demand grows by an expected 40 percent by 2030. Tillerson stated that there is no significant alternative to oil in coming decades, and that ExxonMobil would continue to make petroleum and natural gas its primary products,[58] saying: “I’m no expert on biofuels. I don’t know much about farming and I don’t know much about moonshine. … There is really nothing ExxonMobil can bring to that whole biofuels issue. We don’t see a direct role for ourselves with today’s technology.”[59] However, recently Exxonmobil has announced that it will plan on spending up to 600 million dollars within the next 10 years to fund biofuels that come from algae. On July 14, 2010 Exxonmobil announced that after a year that they are on track for producing biofuels from algae to replace petroleum based oil. (see algae fuel) http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2010/07/14/the-next-phase-of-algae-biofuels/

A survey carried out by the UK’s Royal Society found that in 2005 ExxonMobil distributed $2.9m to 39 groups that the society said “misrepresented the science of climate change by outright denial of the evidence”.[60]

On July 1, 2009, The Guardian newspaper revealed that ExxonMobil has continued to fund organizations including the National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) along with the Heritage Foundation, despite a public pledge to cut support of lobby groups who deny climate change”
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil#Funding_of_global_warming_skeptics
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What you have accepted as legitimate doubt about climate change is nothing other than a paid commercial by Exxon Mobil in addition to several other related efforts by the Oil industry and other industries likely to lose money if fuels are to change in the future.
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Believing them is like believing beer ads that make it appear as if drinking beer will make you more attractive to women.

“… a boat that held two of every species on earth.”
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But Sacred, the lions, tigers and other predators on the giant boat were vegans!
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Then the water that flooded the earth went down the giant drain.
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It will all be proven true when we find the giant drain and the vegan predators… you wait and see. Then our kind and loving god will rip your ass to shreds and beat you up for all eternity to show you what a great guy he is!
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Watch out!
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The World is going to end in the year 2000…. or, was that the year 3000… Damn, it!
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:)

patrick, it just irks the hell out of me when they try to pull crap like intelligent design in the schools and pretend that it’s a competing “theory”. They’re just lying through their teeth when they claim it’s not necessarily “God” they’re talikng about. To me, they’re commiting blasphemy against the very God they claim to worship when they say that. Aren’t they denying their Lord when they say intelligent design isn’t about God? They’re just so full of sh!t. Morality my ass. They just want their way and don’t care how dishonest or deceitful they have to be to get it. It would be funny if they’re commiting mortal sins trying to do what they think is “God’s Will”.

“At Boston University, where I transferred into Harvard Extension from, there were a few 300 student auditoriums. I remember it quite vividly. However, unlike you, by the ages 18 to 22 I was far, far motivated and serious about my education than when I was an eight year old.”
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First, you need to ask for a refund from Harvard.
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So, you believe that children can’t be motivated to learn? That they surely wouldn’t pay attention in a crowded room, like a movie theater.
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I have always been motivated to learn. When the subject is presented in an interesting way, children will pay attention. When they are first taught to be respectful and that they need to listen, why they can even enter a room with several hundred people and absorb information. Amazing isn’t it?

14.3, Yes the theory of Evolution has a big problem. I don’t think that you will let the truth bother you though.
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http://www.truthinscience.org.uk/site/content/view/48/65/
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The fossil record is one of the most common evidences given for evolution. It is named as such in the National Curriculum for Key Stage 4 Science and so features in most syllabuses and textbooks at this level and above.
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But there are several facts about the fossil record which do not fit well with Darwin’s theory of evolution – facts which evolutionary biologists need to explain away rather than use as evidence for their theory. Charles Darwin was very aware of this and devoted a whole chapter of The Origin of Species to the subject.
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The key problem is this: Darwin’s theory relies on minute changes in organisms which slowly accumulate, gradually changing the organism until it eventually becomes a new species. If this is correct, then the fossil record should contain many fossils with forms intermediate between different species. This is not what the fossil record shows…
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The fossil record – in defiance of Darwin’s whole idea of gradual change – often makes great leaps from one form to the next. Far from the display of intermediates to be expected from slow advance through natural selection many species appear without warning, persist in fixed form and disappear, leaving no descendants. Geology assuredly does not reveal any finely graduated organic chain, and this is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against the theory of evolution.”

As I said, I was raised Catholic, but my mother is a chemist and my late father was an engineer.
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The Catholic religion has a strange way of picking every other thing out of the bible, like Noah’s Arc and saying that it is only a metaphor so that they don’t have to be complete morons as the one who take everything literally do.
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Of course the question starts to arise that, if Adam and Eve were a metaphor, Noah’s Arc was a metaphor, cutting out your eye is a metaphor… isn’t this a work of fiction written by a bunch of guys trying to figure out life?
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I completely agree that religious obsession – of any religion just about – can be incredibly dangerous.
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If there is a god and this god is the only source of morality, then a lie for helping get god into textbooks is excusable.
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If you are sane (even religious but not obsessed with religion) lying for the sake of a god is still lying and your ass should be burning in hell with the atheists.
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Of course, take it one step further and you have the fundamentalist Muslims or, more locally, Eric Rudolph bombing Olympic Park in Atlanta in 1996. You add on the words “for god” to these obsessed people, the most despicable, immoral act can become moral and good.
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There’s a different religion around every corner in NYC. That’s why none are too obsessive because you know at least one decent – if not many – person from every religion, so it’s hard to say that these people you like will burn and be tortured for having a different (or no) god.

“Believing them is like believing beer ads that make it appear as if drinking beer will make you more attractive to women.”
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Well, if they’re drinking heavily too it’s at least a possibility. Who hasn’t gone to bed drunk with an attractive woman and woke up next to Medusa?

“Geology assuredly does not reveal any finely graduated organic chain, and this is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against the theory of evolution.”
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Wow!
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I wish for a moment that I studied biology instead of Economics, but did take a course which – with other things in place like the MSATS and, say, a desire to go to med school – gave me enough science credit to go on to med school.
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The Geological record is, in most cases, separated by thousands if not tens of thousands of years.
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To make an analogy, I almost never see my nephew. He is four now. So, he must not be growing at a normal pace. Every single series of pictures I get he is larger than the previous ones. So, there must be magic. God must make him grow all at once right between pictures.
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This is one of the weakest arguments.
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I thought you would use the false argument about flagellum.

“Who hasn’t gone to bed drunk with an attractive woman and woke up next to Medusa?”
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If we let global warming continue, Medusa will look like beauty queen compared to what the creatures left on earth will look life if we ignore this for a few hundred years.

patrick, the beer thing reminded me of a story a guy I used to work with told me about his navy days. He said they’d been out to sea for months and when they finally got home everyone headed to the bars to look for some tail. He said he was really drunk and finally hooked up with a woman. They went to a motel and when he woke up the next morning the only clean places on her body was where he’d been sucking on her nipples. The level of attractiveness and beer consumption might be directly correlated.

“I have always been motivated to learn.”
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LOL.
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Then why haven’t you learned anything that is past the tenth grade yet?
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“So, you believe that children can’t be motivated to learn? ”
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I never made any such statement. Are you hallucinating?
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“That they surely wouldn’t pay attention in a crowded room, like a movie theater.”
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A movie lasting six hours a day 180 days per year?
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Did you learn to ride a bike by watching a movie with somebody riding a bike?
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Did you learn to read by watching somebody sit there and read?
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Learning and watching are not the same thing. A a 90 minute movie and a six hour school day are not very closely related at all.
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To learn, things like reading and writing among other things, you need to actively do them and have somebody correct you when you aren’t doing it right.
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It’s a miserable metaphor at best. If you were right then, instead of schools, the cities and towns could send DVDs daily to every home of every person between the ages of 5 and 17 and they would know everything they need to know for the price of Netflix subscription.

I’m really boring when it comes to alcohol.
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I pass for sober or just a little tipsy when I am dead drunk and then either am on the verge of passing out or, when I was younger, vomiting profusely.
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You can guess that, when vomiting, women don’t come chasing after me even if I have beer goggles.
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Obviously I prefer to have a drink and not get drunk, but, it would take a very strong woman to carry me home. I’m 6′ 2″ like you.
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Now that you’ve made me think about it, I’ve got to be careful if I don’t get taken home by a female lumberjack New Year’s Eve.

I’m not much of a drinker either. Even one beer gives me a headache. I’ve probably drank a case since 2000. Maybe not even that. My last good binge was during Mardi Gras in 1998. I was drunk from the time I woke up until the time I passed out. All the pictures I took suggest I had a great time.
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I love being married. I’d marry her again in a second. I’m not the easiest person in the world to take day in and day out but she thinks I’m funny. As long as I shower everyday, cut the grass when it needs it and brush my teeth, she’s happy. She doesn’t like the buzz cut but she can live with it.

Patrick,
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“I never said that schools are getting worse.”
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“Okay, then, if you do not disagree that schools are getting better, then we are on the right track, but slowly.”
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How can you interpret my saying schools are not getting worse as meaning schools are getting better?
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That is totally irrational.
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Married life, whenever possible – as in you’re in love – is the only way to go.
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I’m already finding myself doing old bachelor’s things like not getting around to taking out the garbage, not shaving when I am not leaving home (where I do my work) for a meeting (but do go out to get coffee, etc).
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It’s not good.
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Since 50% of all men marry women they meet at work, I’ve either got to stop working exclusively from home or hope an attractive woman breaks into my apartment. I don’t go to church, so, I’m not going to meet the future Mrs there.

Patrick,
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“BTW: You were a navy man. How well did you do on your exam? I was 32 and had already gotten 4 years of excellent college behind me first so, even though I was half asleep when they gave me the exam at about 6:30 in the morning, I got 95%.”
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I joined the Navy right out of high school. I went to a Co-op Vocational high school were we worked out in industry our junior and senior years. We rotated working 2 week and then went to school 2 weeks all year long. Since at that time I had no intent of going to college, I didn’t take many college prep type courses.
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I don’t know my actual score but it was high enough to guarantee me any Navy school I wished to attend including the most advanced in 1957 which was Electronics. That is the one I chose to attend.

I’ve known my wife since we were teenagers. I was Best Man at her 2nd wedding and she was Maid of Honor at my first one. We’re also best friends. You just can’t beat a set up like that. Lucikly, she doesn’t go to church either. She believes, but she thinks most of the mythology is BS. She doesn’t go to church anymore. Her last husband is a minister. She says she’ll if I go with her, but I really think she uses my not going as an excuse for her not to go. It works. She even thinks we’ll die about the same time. I’m hoping she’s thinking kharma instead of murder-suicide.

“Where do you think I learned much of what I learned?”
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Thanks for asking, but first I would have to believe that you know anything. So, I am thinking that your education process was a complete waste of time. You show no curiosity; as you said yourself you were not motivated to learn. Your critical thinking skills are none existent. I suggest that you pursue a career in the crap business. Since you are familiar with it, and enjoy spreading it. The local sewer plant would be a good place to start getting your feet wet. I am sure you will meet many new friends there on your intellectual level and you can talk shop.

And so this thread ends as it began: Fat AND dumb.

Now that’s funny! I don’t care who you are.

You beat me to it 2/3′s. Merry Christmas and drive safely if you’re hitting the roads.

Right back at ya sacred. Staying home this year because of work. The little lady will be driving 8 hrs to Tenn. to visit her mom the day after Christmas. Would love to go but at the same time won’t miss that long ride.

We’re just making two short hops today to visit relatives and then I start 7 midnights tonight. We had the last two evenings of Christmas parties here and I am so ready to spend some quiet time at work. I love the holiday season but it’s so hectic.

I hear ya. Great to be with family, and I love all the eating, but am still quite happy when Jan. 2nd rolls around. My son has managed to be home each of the past 4 christmases, but knowing he is home for good this year seems to make it extra special.

There is nothing like family (however dysfunctional). Years and years ago a woman named Faith Popcorn wrote about cocooning and making the home someplace that you just wanted to be. That’s us. Vacations are nice, but there’s no place like home. Everytime we go someplace I can’t wait to get back home and be in familiar surroundings.

Have always been that way. Love to travel, but a week away is always more than enough to satisfy. My gal has already cut her trip in half, tho I told her not to, but secretly I’m glad. Been together for a yr. and living together for 2 mos. Still at that stage where even the simplest activity together is like a party. And being home is it’s own little vacation.

I feel the same way and I’ve been married for over twelve years although we’ve known each other for close to 40 years. Sometimes I think we’re another John and Yoko. Even when we aren’t actually saying anything I feel that we’re still communicating and on the same wavelength. You say that you’re still at that stage where even the simplest activity together is like a party. Believe me, when the find the right one, it only gets better with the passing of years.
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My wife was very ill a couple of years ago and came close to dying. I’d never been so scared in my life. It was so bad that my heart skipped a beat everytime the phone rang at work. Sometimes you don’t realize what you have until you come close to losing it. Fortunately, she made a complete recovery. I don’t think we’ve had an argument that’s lasted more than 5 minutes since then.

“You show no curiosity…”
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As in how I became totally familiar with the anti-evolution theories?
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“… as you said yourself you were not motivated to learn….”
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You are hallucinating again.
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The closest statement I said to that was that at age 18 I was very highly motivated and I was less so at age 8.
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You lost an argument and are just being a dick.
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Maybe you’ve got it figured that you’ve got God on your side so that being a dick is just fine.
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That’s how terrorists think.

“How can you interpret my saying schools are not getting worse as meaning schools are getting better?”
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3X,
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Saying schools are exactly the same with all of the work being done nationwide is, by far the most irrational conclusion one can come to.
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Either they are improving due to the changes even if improving slightly and not greatly or they are deteriorating either slightly or greatly.
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To say that the results are completely the same is by far the most irrational conclusion.
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Hence, if they are improving even slightly with the teachers unions in tact, then, clearly, it is possible for greater improvement with the teachers unions not being removed.
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If they are deteriorating, even slightly, then, perhaps you have an argument presuming that you have an explanation for the rules of supply and demand turned upside down such that lower wages and benefits attract more qualified people than higher wages and benefits.
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You haven’t explained the laws of supply and demand reversing in the instance of teachers, either making your argument totally unsound.

“I don’t know my actual score but it was high enough to guarantee me any Navy school I wished to attend including the most advanced in 1957 which was Electronics.”
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So, if I weren’t 33 years younger than you are, you acknowledge that if we were the same age you might have been calling me “sir”.
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By 2003 all of the Armed forces took the same test which I did not study for and took while half asleep. The MEPS center in South Boston was run, interestingly enough, by the Navy even though I was looking to be in Army JAG corps.

“Many liberals do agree with your comments. The people debating me here on the Swamp are Extreme Liberal Ideologues. There politics is really not Liberal. It is much closer to Socialism than to the Liberal views of most American Liberals.”
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Note that megatronrises made his point without making it about liberals and how stupid they/we are.
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You went from A to liberals to unions. Without tying them together and without even providing any data why 23% fail the exame.
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You should try that before you start your intellectual massaging. Guess what – Megatronrises made a point and I’m going to watch the documentary he suggested as a result.