"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" All But Dead

The Senate voted 65 to 31 this afternoon to kill “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” a law that had been used to kick nearly 14,000 gay men and women out of the U.S. military since 1993. The measure, which already has passed the House, is on its way to the White House for President Obama’s signature. It marks a significant victory for Obama – who pledged during his campaign to fight to lift the ban – and will mark the first time in U.S. history that openly gay people can serve in uniform.

“Today, America lived up to its highest ideals of freedom and equality,” said Joe Solmonese of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay advocacy group. “Congress recognized that all men and women have the right to openly serve their country.”

The Senate Majority Leader cited a right-wing icon to justify repeal. “As Barry Goldwater said, ‘You don’t have to be straight to shoot straight,’” argued Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada. But Arizona Republican John McCain, a former Navy pilot and Obama’s rival for the White House two years ago, predicted that the rank-and-file will have difficulty serving alongside declared gay troops. “They will do what is asked of them,” he said, “but don’t think there won’t be a great cost.”

Ultimately, despite all the sturm und drang preceding the vote, the policy ended with a whimper rather than a bang. There has been a sense all year that barring openly gay men and lesbians from wearing their nation’s uniform makes sense – if we were living in those days before 1969′s Stonewall riots, when gays first began demanding the right to be treated as equal.

But since then, progress has been slow. First came President Bill Clinton’s ill-aimed effort to end the policy in 1993, which led to the passage of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” That turned what had been a unilateral presidential policy into the law of the land. The polarization triggered by that debate only made things worse for some suspected gays in uniform.

Charles Moskos, a noted military sociologist at Northwestern University, was basically the author of what became “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” His son, Peter, said Saturday that his father, who died in 2008, was proud of his role in creating the policy. But he also would have acknowledged that times have changed. “My dad would have been the first to go to the field to see how to best integrate openly gay men and women into the military,” said the younger Moskos, now an assistant professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City.

Repeal supporters got a boost last month, when a major Pentagon survey showed that 92 percent of the troops who have served alongside gays said their presence didn’t hurt their unit’s morale or combat effectiveness. Yet the legislation to end the ban appeared dead as a part of the 2011 defense bill. But once allowed to stand on its own, it passed the House handily earlier this week.

“By ending ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,’ no longer will our nation be denied the service of thousands of patriotic Americans forced to leave the military, despite years of exemplary performance, because they happen to be gay,” Obama said shortly before the historic vote. “And no longer will many thousands more be asked to live a lie in order to serve the country.”

The Pentagon already has a plan on how to implement the change. For starters, it requires top Pentagon officials to certify that the military is ready to let gays serve without harming military readiness. That could take months of training. The formal change in policy would follow 60 days later. Regulations pertaining to housing and benefits also will have to be tweaked to accommodate the shift. “The bottom line: for now, gay, lesbian, and bisexual service members must remain cautiously closeted,” said Aubrey Sarvis, an Army veteran and head of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, which has been championing repeal since Congress legislated the ban 17 years ago.

Adm. Mike Mullen, whose support for repeal in February really got the ball rolling, praised the congressional action. There was concern in the military that if Congress didn’t act, the courts might toss out the ban overnight. “Handling this through legislation preserves the military’s prerogative to implement change in a responsible, deliberate manner,” the chairman of the Joint Chiefs said. “We will be a better military as a result.”

While this is a big civil-rights issue, its impact on the military is likely to be less than many people expect. That’s because research funded by the Pentagon suggests that only 15 percent of the estimated 66,000 gay people now in uniform – perhaps 10,000 troops — will make their sexual orientation known once it becomes legal to do so. The other 55,000 or so will simply be able to breathe a sigh of relief that a secret that once threatened their military careers has now vanished.

Related Topics: don't ask don't tell, National Security
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  • apr2563

    Hooray!

  • gysgt213

    This is incredible.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “great cost”?
    .
    Any reporter ask McCain to expand on that?
    .
    Ha- I kid, I know that wouldn’t happen.

  • mjkoch

    Finally, America, the one true bastion of freedom, liberty and justice on this planet for all has lived up to its name. Was it that difficult to end the process of denying equal rights to gay Americans who believe in this country so much they are willing to sacrifice their lives and limbs to protect it?

    Equality in America means equal rights for everyone, irregardless of the color of your skin, the God you believe in, or your sexual orientation. If we had adhered to the policy of equal rights for only some of our citizens it would have meant equal rights for none of our citizens.

  • apr2563

    Well said.

  • grape_crush

    Good news! Thanks, Mark.

    But Arizona Republican John McCain…predicted that the rank-and-file will have difficulty serving alongside declared gay troops.

    Just another thing McCain will end up being wrong about before changing his mind about it once more and going on Meet The Press again to maintain the facade hiding his irrelevancy.

  • http://zantor2.wordpress.com zantor2

    EXCELLENT. The BS about servicemen, in some great number, will have a problem serving with gay/lesbians may be true for a small number of homophobs, but I served in the US Navy in 67/68 and even BACK THEN we knew who the ‘gay guys’ were and for the vast majority of my fellow shipmates, nobody cared. As long as nobody hassled someone then everyone got along. A bigger problem then, which has since been taken care of, was outright racism against blacks. But just like everything once people start living with something they moderate their actions. There will be some jac&as# jerks who will do/say something stupid, but it will work out. PEER pressure in the military is a huge motivator.

    I am really disappointed in McCain, I’ll never figure out WHAT IS HIS PROBLEM, other than to believe he is homophobic. Maybe he has personal issues with gays, maybe HE has deep seated concerns he is gay.

  • http://aronlao.wordpress.com aronlao

    Finally, America, the one true bastion of freedom, liberty and justice on this planet for all has lived up to its name. Was it that difficult to end the process of denying equal rights to gay Americans who believe in this country so much they are willing to sacrifice their lives and limbs to protect it?

    “The one true bastion of freedom, libery and justice on this planet”? Please.

    The fact it has taken until to repeal DADT suggests differently. I love how Americans are suddenly all self-righteous and self-congratulatory, as if they have somehow pioneered the gay rights movement.

    Most militaries in the developed world have long allowed gays to serve openly, have marriage equality, etc. Right now, we’re all thinking, “About time they caught on to this ‘equality’ thing.”

  • http://aronlao.wordpress.com aronlao

    “The one true bastion of freedom, libery and justice on this planet”? Please.

    The fact it has taken until to repeal DADT suggests differently. I love how Americans are suddenly all self-righteous and self-congratulatory, as if they have somehow pioneered the gay rights movement.

    Most militaries in the developed world have long allowed gays to serve openly, have marriage equality, etc. Right now, we’re all thinking, “About time they caught on to this ‘equality’ thing.”

  • Cliff

    This is good news, but after getting our asses kicked on the tax cuts, the DREAM Act, the omnibus spending bill and possibly START, it’s a pretty small consolation.
    .
    At least I can dream of McCain crying into his f–king Midol tonight.

  • http://zantor2.wordpress.com zantor2

    What happened to McCain over the past 10 years. When he ran for the GOP nomination the first time i thought he had his Sh*t together, i even went out and campaigned for him.
    Where is THAT McCain who seemed like he had some good ideas for this country. I thank our lucky stars he did NOT get elected. As time has gone by after that run, I have come to see a guy who is a true LOOSE CANNON, who may in fact be mentally deranged/ill. I think those years he spent in the POW camp did after all ruin his brain. That’s sad because at one time he truly, in my eyes, was a hero and a leader. Now he is just a sad old guy who is way out of step with reality.

  • http://rightofwrong.wordpress.com rightofwrong

    I sense that 95% of the people look upon this issue with the though of “Of course gays should be able to serve in the military, they always have. And there’s no problem with them declaring themselves as openly gay, as long as they don’t act all gay about it.”

    No one will say that, though.

  • http://zantor2.wordpress.com zantor2

    I think you have hit the nail on the head. Most people don’t really care what other peoples sexual orientation is
    as long as they don’t AFFECT other peoples lives.
    And when gays ‘act all gay’ (I’ll let each reader define what that might be) then it makes lots of people uncomfortable and they start thinking negative things.

    Personally I do not care what each person does with his/her partner/s. But if you decide to get too close and personal when UN-invited then of course people get their hackles up = but that is basically STAY in your own space. As far as behaving in public in a manner which many would define as “gay behavior” (many would define that as too-much physical touching/kissing/whatever) then those doing the actions may not enjoy the reactions of those around them. But most people would react negatively regardless if it were a ‘gay’ or ‘hetero’ couple doing heavy duty fore-play in public. Basically keep in the privacy of your own space, be reasonable in ‘body actions’ in public and should be no problem.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Ian Welsh has a theory about “Why DADT Repeal Will Pass and Dream Won’t”

    “Gays dropped their votes to Dems significantly from 2008 levels. Hispanics voted for Democrats at about 2008 levels despite horrible policies against them. You only have leverage if you are willing to defect in a high profile fashion.”

    Links here: http://www.ianwelsh.net/why-dadt-will-pass-and-dream-wont/

  • freeinpa

    This is priceless. Now as in 1993, the Democrats controlled the Senate, House and Presidency and could not repeal DADT and the left here is whining about John McCain and how it is his fault.
    .
    What it does show is that liberals stand for nothing.

    .
    PS Senate just approved repeal.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Man, this is a popular topic.

  • Paul-no not that one

    It is kind of a big deal.
    .
    Today that is, in a very short time people will wonder what the fuss was all about.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    (Ir)regardless?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    …in a very short time people will wonder what the fuss was all about.
    .
    Perhaps.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    N-R,
    .
    Offering some penetrating insights here today, eh?

  • Paul-no not that one

    “Perhaps”?
    .
    It is VERY unlike you to be so circumspect.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Don’t feel strongly enough either way to warrant a confrontation.

  • textee

    Fairy Reid’s aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States, particularly those intent on killing members of America’s military, continues.

    Fairy Reid has gone from giving aid and comfort to the enemy in Iraq by declaring that America’s military had “lost” the war to now attempting to turn the United States military in to a model San Francisco so-called “Gay Pride” parade.

    Which U.S. Army post will host the first “Gay Pride” parade led by Obamao, Fairy Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Rachel Madcow, Robert Gates, Michael Mullen and Rosie O’Donnell? Fort Benning? Fort Bragg? West Point?

    How soon will Gates announce that cross-dressing males may wear skirts in the military? At midnight?

  • Paul-no not that one

    “Don’t feel strongly enough either way to warrant a confrontation.”
    .
    “in a very short time people will wonder what the fuss was all about”
    .
    See how that’s my point?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    I wouldn’t want to come across like Textee, you know ;)

  • Paul-no not that one

    Heh why not? She’s a great “conservative”!

  • ogliberal

    OK, this latest post has convinced me that textee is a complete act…a fake wingnut. I mean, nobody could seriously be this bigoted, idiotic and ridiculous, right?

  • textee

    Leftist moron Mark Thompson, citing leftist moron Fairy Reid asserts: “The Senate Majority Leader cited a right-wing icon to justify repeal.”

    “Barry Goldwater”? “Right wing icon”?

    Thompson and Reid know as little about Goldwater as they know about the United States military, to wit: nothing.

    Goldwater was a militant, virulent pro-abortion, anti-religion, homosexualist enthusiast. “Right wing” indeed!

    Memo for the boys and girls unfamiliar with Time magazine: Anytime the leftist political activists/lobbyists at Time magazine begin to hail so-called “right wingers”, those hailed ain’t “right wing”.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    While I admit testes is a one wo/man show for big-tent conservatism, perhaps throwing out epithets (compensating anyone?) merits exile. Would the Swamp be down with it if he began hurling insults at African Americans, Asians…

  • 4chris10s

    Its a dark day in America, appropriately marked by the darkest eclipse in the history of America on December 21st.

  • textee

    Will Obamao invite homosexual activist and U.S. Army private Bradley “Wikileaks” Manning to the signing ceremony? Will Obamao’s fringe base be successful in forcing Obamao to issue a pardon for Manning? Will the Commandant of the Marine Corps and the Chiefs of Staff for the United States Army and Air Force be required to attend the signing ceremony?

  • sacredh

    “nobody could seriously be this bigoted, idiotic and ridiculous, right?”
    .
    Surely you jest. I live in a conservative rural area. There are “Jesus Saves” signs everywhere. People go straight from church to the bars on Sunday. People blast away at STOP signs because they think their freedoms are being restricted. textee wouldn’t even make the medal round up where I live.

  • ohiolibb

    It’s about time.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “What it does show is that liberals stand for nothing.”
    .
    No, DADT was passed under Clinton as a compromise since, prior to that point the military police/shore patrol actually had people assigned to investigating who was gay.
    .
    Talk about a crappy assignment. That’s down there with the cop who was assigned to finding gay guys having sex in the airport bathroom who discovered Senator Larry Craig.
    .
    It goes to show that the Democratic party moves very slowly and is far from radical.
    .
    The fact that you are posting goes to show that you have no honor and do not keep your word and stand for nothing.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Textee: official spokesperson for the extremely insane extreme right wing coming to you live from the McLean Hospital mental ward in Belmont, Massachusetts.

  • mattgordonmd

    I prefer to give the armed services personnel more credit than those who project their butthurt over a policy change. Looking back, some people probably thought the military would crumble if blacks were afforded equal chance for advancement and success. Those that think the military personnel can’t handle or won’t accept this policy change are, in effect, being disrespectful to the troops.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Frankly, Exiled, I agree with you.
    .
    Only when out of work in 2004 did I look into joining the army.
    .
    That and not being gay, I am not terribly concerned.
    .
    But I do wonder, now that tough special forces guys who could carry every man and woman who posts on the Swamp with his left arm without breaking a sweat comes out of the closet as gay, what do we call wimpy guys?
    .
    We can’t call wimpy guys “gay” or “faggy” anymore.
    .
    However, I am glad that it worked out. Since, in reality, it demanded that gays lie to be in the military, it was not a good policy.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Leaking classified information is a sign of homosexuality?
    .
    Textee, you’ve just topped your previous level of insanity.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    See how that’s my point?
    .
    Um, no. I have to subdue my own strong feelings on homosexuality itself and reason myself into defending repeal of DADT on principles of equality. I, however, suspect many who hold views such as I do would have a harder time accepting DADT’s repeal and will likely feel the same way in time. Basically, few will change their perceptions on this over time. I see no reason why they would.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Manning is openly gay, Patrick, a well-documented fact.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “I have to subdue my own strong feelings on homosexuality itself and reason myself into defending repeal of DADT on principles of equality”
    .
    Respectfully, you will have the same feelings about gay/lesbian marriage.
    .
    As for those “who hold views such as I do” they are demographically older. The principles of equality ( a wonderful American sentiment) will rule the day.
    .
    They always, often slowly, do.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I just noticed something:
    .
    People here called me homophobic when I said that only about 2% of the population was homosexual.
    .
    “Total Active 1,445,000
    ..
    Total Reserve 833,616″
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_armed_forces#Personnel_in_each_service

    .
    Total serving in military: 2,278,616
    .
    “estimated 66,000 gay people now in uniform’ From above.
    .
    66,000/ 2,278,616 = 0.0289649507 or 2.89649507%
    .
    Closer to 3%, but I wasn’t too far off.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Ha -which people called you homophobic?
    .
    I skip over a lot of the longer comments so I likely missed it. I am curious.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I did not know that.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    It was when somebody said that religion was responsible for all homophobia.
    .
    I can’t remember the post, though.
    .
    The funniest part of that is, I am an atheist and ended up defending religion since, when I was practicing – in part because pre-adolescent children were always in the church during mass and, as a Catholic, there was often talk about the orientation of some of the priests themselves – I never heard a sermon or any reference to gays at all (but knew that the official church stance was that it was a sin – but missing mass or having sex with your girlfriend was, also, a mortal sin, so…)

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Respectfully, you must be capable of seeing the difference between denying someone the right to serve in the military, i.e. denial of equal opportunity employment, based on their sexuality and the state declining to consecrate/sanction their sexuality in the form of a marriage. Whether or not both are acceptable is irrelevant, there is a fundamental difference between these two, no?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Exiled,
    .
    At least 97% of us find the concept of gay sex really disgusting if that’s what you mean.
    .
    If you mean that there is a god and that he created gays to face a temptation that the rest of us don’t and….
    in that case you may have an atypical POV for this blog.

  • jgsr

    As an old “straight guy”, never in the Military, maybe my lack of Military experience disqualifies my opinion. That disclaimer stated, I have always viewed sex/expressed physical affection as an activity that falls under the category of recreational choice….not unlike drinking alcohol, or any of a very long list of what would be considered recreational activities.
    Both activities have the requirement that for either activity, there are proper times and proper places to do, and not to do, either/or both recreational choices….or ANY recreational choice as far as that goes.
    Whether people are hetero or homosexual, PDAs are subject to standards of acceptable public behavior.
    Over my life I have seen at least a 100 times more acts of offensive behavior exhibited by people drinking alcohol than I have seen acts of offensive PDA behavior by either heterosexual OR homosexual couples.
    Isn’t the most important qualification of remaining and advancing as a military member being whether a person consistently and continuously executes their duties and responsibilities as an individual and as a cohesive group member?
    Duty, Honor, Country….and then, maybe, time with Jack or Jill doesn’t seem a contradiction to me.
    I would hope for this Country’s safety and the safety of those serving, that no irresponsible, integrity lacking, duty-shirking-military members are allowed to remain in the military simply because they are heterosexual.
    I have the highest possible respect for the sacrifices that John McCain made for this Country…..and every American should also.
    I also know that there always comes a time when old men need to learn to keep their mouth shut.
    That especially applies to Jimmy Carter.

  • redlotuspetal68

    Hallelujah! I am so happy. I am so proud of all the work all of us did for this victory. Good men and women have fought hard for this, and it has finally paid off. Congratulations to everyone, and a much Happier New Year this will be.

    Love,

    Stephanie

  • sacredh

    patrick, were you saying that 2% of the entire population was homosexual or 2% of the military population? I wouldn’t think that they would be the same. It would seem to me that fewer gays would choose a career where they could be fired if their orientation became known. I would expect a higher percentage would consider military service if that wasn’t hanging over their heads.

  • ohiolibb

    Here’s something else, Patrick. I would expect the overall number of gays in the military to be lower than the national average, simply because the military has historically been hostile towards gays. So, while about 3% of the military may be gay, I would expect that to be the low edge for the national average.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Exiled,
    .
    We both posted at exactly 7:48 so our comments crossed paths.
    .
    If you are saying that you accept the legal equality of gays but, also, accept that your religion has a different view of gay sex as sinful, that isn’t anything I would consider a problem.
    .
    I can’t imagine anybody expect any religion to change it’s mind in less than one thousand years.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    If you mean that there is a god and that he created gays to face a temptation that the rest of us don’t and….
    in that case you may have an atypical POV for this blog.

    .
    Clarification/elaboration would be a Godsend.

  • sacredh

    ohiolib: Ha! from another lib in Ohio.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “So, while about 3% of the military may be gay, I would expect that to be the low edge for the national average.”
    .
    Very possible. But the demographic of those who join the military are disproportionately rural and working class/poor where no matter where they went they would be in the closet.
    .
    So, I have no idea of exactly what percent of the population is gay from this fact.

  • ohiolibb

    ….you just noticed my moniker now??? I’ve been using it for something like 2 years now,except for the when I had to add a second b to the end cause wordpress was screwy.

  • sacredh

    No, I noticed the first time I saw a post of yours. I was just referring to us saying about the same thing just a minute apart.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Neo I think I understand why we are at loggerheads.
    .
    You use-in the case of the state- consecrate and sanction as interchangeable.
    .
    My faith doesn’t confer the ability to consecrate to the state. Nor do my civics.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Clarification/elaboration would be a Godsend.”
    .
    Not many here are both members of conservative leaning Christian faiths or, if they are, do not fret about being orthodox.
    .
    It is my understanding from when I was younger that if god made people who wanted to have gay sex, then it was an extra challenge that gay people had to completely refrain from their desires while for the rest of us it is only not to refrain from our desire to have sex with the opposite sex until holy matrimony.
    .
    So, if I understand correctly, you see gay people having sex as a sin, but, do not believe that the government should themselves nor allow others to treat gays unfairly or discriminate against gays.
    .
    I don’t see your end result, believing that the repeal of DADT is a good thing as substantially different than anybody else here except that you keep your own faith more than most people here subscribe to the more conservative branches of Christianity.

  • sacredh

    Next month I will have been infesting the swamp for 2 years. It seems like I slightly younger then.

  • sacredh

    Right back at ya Stephanie.

  • ohiolibb

    Ah. Ok.
    P.S. What’s the MIL been up to lately?

  • sacredh

    ohiolibb, I haven’t been around her much at all in the past week. I can’t seem to shake the flu and I’m banished to the downstairs library and living room. I did puke and then lick her phone the other day. I took it right out of hand and gave it a tongue swipe. This might be TMI, but the other night I took my wastebasket up to her room (puke and all) and switched it for hers while she was asleep. It did have a liner in it though. My wife was furious because it made her mom’s room smell.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    I think McCain is “playing a Reagan” and trying to hide the onset of Alzheimer’s.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    Happy days. At last, the congress has done something right!!!

  • sacredh

    It has to be an accident. They must have thought they were voting on another giveaway to the wealthy.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    LOL

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    There’s gotta be a special place in Hell reserved for you, Sacred. Not merely a place for people like you, but your very own front row seat. ;)

  • sacredh

    Thank you Exiled. I’m shooting for a position in Administration. 35 years of service in the federal government would surely count for something. If they need somebody to f**k over the run-of-the-mill sinners, I’m their man. I’ve never met a sin I didn’t like. I’ve always looked at the list of mortal sins as a to-do list. Hedonism, sloth, gluttony, sex, sacrilege…..yum.
    .
    I need my beauty sleep (ala Rip Van Winkle). Good night folks.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    This all of course relies upon the thesis that homosexuals are entirely and innately homosexual. Observations all point to the contrary.

  • tilliswynette

    Just the wife me and the wifes heartfelt thanks to our Senators Cornyn and Hutchison for saying NO to the homosexual agenda being crammed down our throats. Another PROUD day for Texas– a state always protecting the sanctity of marriage and the sacred values that made this nation great a long time ago.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    December 18, 2010. The day sacred came out.
    .
    Skin floutists rejoice!

  • np042

    Just the wife me and the wifes heartfelt thanks
    .
    When did Texans become polygamists?
    .
    Also, what is with people equating passing legislation they don’t agree with and cramming something down your throat? Is it just me, or does this language come up much more often on these types of issues, which adds a whole other angle to it?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Just the wife me and the wifes heartfelt thanks
    .
    When did Texans become polygamists?”
    .
    Ok, that’s fúcking funny!

  • zielwolf1

    Although it’s great that this ban has finally been lifted, I wouldn’t be crowing about how progressive and supportive of freedoms and human rights the USA is. It all sounds a bit hollow. It’s like when the ban on HIV travellers was lifted: the fact is, the USA is one of the last modern, democratic countries in the world to lift either ban – not really a sign of any great progressiveness or love of freedoms and civil rights. It’s sad that such claims (to freedom and rights) have become little more than cliched rhetoric in the face of irrational conservative obstinacy.

  • clarknk

    Next in line…marriage parity for gays. It’s about civil rights. None of us is free until ALL of us are!

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  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Observations all point to the contrary.”
    .
    Sorry, Exiled, but, observations by whom?
    .
    Start googling for “differences in brain homosexuals and heterosexuals”.
    .
    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=difference+in+brains+between+homosexuals+and+heterosexuals&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=e64ee6e4e8056c32
    .
    All I know is that by age 3 I was holding hands and kissing a girl in nursery school. (No, it was not “playing house” at age 3 I didn’t know that taking off clothes was a part of that – that wasn’t until later).

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    What is the right wing concept that allowing a soldier to admit that he is gay have to do with forced gay fellatio?
    .
    If there were legislation that were going to force gay fellatio or, “the homosexual agenda being crammed down our throats” I would extremely vehemently oppose it.
    .
    Don’t worry till. Under the new law the only fellatio happening is if your wife is willing to provide it for you.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Two thirds brain,
    .
    I guess to you caring soooo much about if your son’s commanding officer is gay is the only way you can show your heterosexuality.
    .
    For the rest of us we show our heterosexuality by having sex with women.

  • freeinpa

    “The fact that you are posting goes to show that you have no honor and do not keep your word and stand for nothing”.
    .
    Let’s see, You defend Clinton a liar and felon, You defend illegal immigrants, you defend Leahy a traitor who leaked classified documents (and on and on) but a nosense bet and you demand the death penalty.
    .

    Thanks for demonstrating (time and time again) that you are a first rate IDIOT. I am sure you would like nothing better than for conservatives to disappear from here that you can shovel your crap without being shown the loser you are.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Attaching female names to your hand and pocket pu$$y does not indeed make them women patsy.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    What a wonderful day in the history of our great nation! The celebration of fagdom.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Progressives unite and celebrate. But remember, there’s still lots to be done.
    .
    Don’t forget the other “alternative lifestyles”, such as sex with children, animals, the dead, etc. Everyone has rights you know.
    .
    In the long run I think this repeal is a good thing for our great nation. It further opens our eyes to the sickness and destruction of progressivism.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Apparently you are a true expert on pocket pool.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Don’t forget the other “alternative lifestyles”, such as sex with children, animals, the dead, etc. Everyone has rights you know.”
    .
    Sex with dead people is your specialty since no living person would find you tolerable.
    .
    “It further opens our eyes to the sickness and destruction of progressivism.”
    .
    So you are saying that this is all Teddy Roosevelt’s fault?
    .
    If it weren’t for the progressive movement one hundred years ago there would be no gays?
    .
    Two third, vodka is not a good morning beverage. Sober up!

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “…but a nosense bet and you demand the death penalty.”
    .
    So you are saying that you would rather die than stop debating me?
    .
    I’m flattered.
    .
    And frightened.
    .
    And disgusted.
    .
    But thanks for saying that life without my telling you what a moron you are is worse than death…. I think.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    In matters of principles and values patsy, were Teddy alive today he would look at you with the same disdain as he would a dog terd.

  • freeinpa

    “So you are saying that you would rather die than stop debating me?”
    .
    A debate would imply you actually had something to contribute. Use bring a water pistol to a gun fight.The only one impressed by your post are you!
    .
    “But thanks for saying that life without my telling you what a moron you are is worse than death…. I think.”
    .
    As usual you are wrong in both sentences. Without your idiocy my daily laughter would drop. Actually what is funny is your pathetic attempt to sound serious and enlightened when you are nothing but a dropout loser.
    .
    The second sentence is wrong for obvious reasons. Nothing you say can be confuse with the word – think.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “In matters of principles and values patsy, were Teddy alive today he would look at you with the same disdain as he would a dog terd.”
    .
    First, if was against progressive Teddy Roosevelt’s principals, then it is against progressive principals, too.
    .
    Also, as a general, Roosevelt had gays serving under him.
    .
    It wasn’t until he was out of the white house that the ban on gays began.
    .
    “A blue discharge (also known as a “blue ticket”) was a form of administrative military discharge formerly issued by the United States beginning in 1916. It was neither honorable nor dishonorable. The blue ticket became the discharge of choice for commanders seeking to remove homosexual service members from the ranks and they were also issued disproportionately to African Americans.

    Service members holding a blue discharge were subjected to discrimination in civilian life. They were denied the benefits of the G.I. Bill by the Veterans Administration and had difficulty finding work because employers were aware of the negative connotations of a blue discharge. Following intense criticism in the press – especially the black press, because of the high percentage of African Americans who received blue discharges – and in Congress, the blue discharge was discontinued in 1947, replaced by two new classifications”
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_discharge
    .
    Roosevelt was president from September 14, 1901 to March 4, 1909.
    .
    The first organized ban on gays in the military were six years after he left the White House.
    .
    Also, please do explain what “principal” it is that if under fire it would be worse for the army to be shorthanded and have your son shot by the enemy than to have a gay man defend the squadron?
    .
    You’d rather have your son dead?
    .
    That’s your principal?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Use bring a water pistol to a gun fight.”
    .
    And none of yous like immigrants since day done speak so good.
    .
    Yet you keep on posting.

  • np042

    Patrick:
    .
    The really funny thing is, under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, any kind of fellatio (or use of the rear entrance) is cause for court martial. The only approved form of “copulation” is male-to-female, front-to-front.
    .
    http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj2.htm#SUBCHAPTER XI. MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS
    .
    925, Art 125
    .
    So, if you’re against gay service members, your also against BJs. And if your against BJs, then your just plain un-American.

  • np042

    And I am a horrible person for mixing “your” and you’re”

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    The military bans heterosexual fellatio?
    .
    Now, in retrospect, I think I am glad that I was incorrectly medically disqualified in 2004.

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