262,681…

How good is TIME’s EAP?

Sweet God Almighty…
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The Hessians… we’ve effectively “privatized” the war.
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There’s your “National Jobs Program” in action, right there…

The contractor # will only increase, I take it?

If the economy continues to “sputter”?
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You better believe it.

Startling. These mercenaries don’t come cheap. Of course, wars don’t come cheap either, but, still…

Why is anyone surprised by this? This is the direct result of the Republican view on governance, which is to outsource to what they believe will be lower costs and “smaller” government.
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The Wash Post just had those series of stories the last couple months that talked about the astronomical rise in contractors in gov’t, whether civilian, defense, or intel post 9-11.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/rick-sanchez-jon-stewart-is-a-bigot-news-networks-are-run-by-jews/
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White people, jews, minorities, and women. The new talking points of progressives.

If war weren’t so profitable, maybe fewer would do business there. Alas, this isn’t snark (thanks, MIC), sigh.

…and your talking points du jour of disparagement.

Out of curiosity, what’s the average pay rate for the U.S. armed forces vs private mercenary???
·
Are we actually encouraging this with how much we’re willing to pay mercenaries? I always here mercenaries cost more, but I’m wondering if people choose to be mercenaries over being in the armed forces due to flexibility/compensation…

Gum, excellent question. I entered your phrase “average pay rate for the U.S. armed forces vs private mercenary” verbatim into google. Long list. This was first link w/ stark contrasting #’s –
http://www.redrat.net/BUSH_WAR/mercenaries/index.htm
If veterans here have personal experiences with pay / contrasts, I hope they share it too.

They are virtually all ex-military or CIA. They like war in any event, but the mercenary pay is a no brainer for them. I’m sure some are drawing military retirement as well.

Out of curiosity, what’s the average pay rate for the U.S. armed forces vs private mercenary???
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IMHO, pay from private sources would be a LOT more.
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During Vietnam, some of the repair depots overseas were staffed by civilian contractors. Substantially higher pay then, although I can’t say by how much.
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Contractors would have to have housing allowances. The military simply maintained barracks that, in some cases, would have been substandard even for the “projects”.
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They could be simple Quonset huts with bunk beds, no A/C. Maybe a fan.

BTW, they really come on the cheap to private industry. The government has spent plenty in training them before they join private industry.

“Just say no”…to thread hijacking.

Or obnoxious a$$holes.

On several news programs, contractors have bragged of leaving the U.S. Special Forces for salaries of $1000+/day while in country. Thirty days and you have paid for a US service person. The actual costs PER CONTRACTOR is estimated as $100,000 each. Put 5 zeros behind that 263,000 number and it starts to look like a really big number! Of course, some of these are cheaply paid Bangladesh cleaners or Phillipino cooks so the actual dolla cost may be less than that but everyone of those is a U. S, job that doesn’t exist and a hugh profit for Halliburton, KBR, and whatever Whitewater calls itself nowdays.

art, I am falling over in laughter. Whitewater was the right wing, praise god, Kenneth Starr witch hunt. You mean Blackwater. After Blackwater raised eyebrows by committing mass murder of innocent civilians in Iraq (the murders that are common knowledge, anyway), they changed the name to xe, or ze, or sht. Not sure. In any event, thanks, man, you gave me a good laugh.

I do hate analogizing the US to Rome because people have been doing that forever and they’re always wrong but… um… outsourcing defense and intelligence functions to private contractors didn’t end up well for Rome.

More thread hijacking. Enjoy!! :)
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http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/cnn_host_rick_sanchez_fired_over_47GKLwpTP4TRoY2j9GCj5K?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=
.

CNN host Rick Sanchez fired over Jon Stewart rant

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At least Stewart is good for something. Eliminating progressive libtards like Sanchez.

When I was declared a medical PDQ (previously known as four F – not healthy enough) to join the Army by a MEPS (Military Enlistment Processing Station) civilian contractor to the Navy, my recruiter told me, “when you enlist’ [he was very surprised that my appeal did not get me in considering it included a series medical exams totally refuting the claim that i have a heart condition] “you will learn to hate civilian contractors”.
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This was seven years ago.
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It’s gotten worse from what I understand.

Shouldn’t it be Obama’s War? Let’s see in 2009 there were approximately 133,000 contractors. 2010 there are over 262,000. That is a 100% increase in this type of use of contractors to fight this war.
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Now where is all the outrage from the left again on how Obama is handling this War?

Any outrage over the war itself, Rusty?

Rusty and I have been having a “discussion” about each other’s relative “bona-fides” regarding military service. He has refused to provide a texual description of his service and now questions that I have any either.
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Anyone who believes that, over the past couple of years of my posting on this blog, I have NOT provided sufficient proof of my service, both with dates and other service-specific information, please so state.
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Now, the same question regarding Rusty.
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I now refer you to an exchange we had on another thread earlier in the day, in which I was asked to provide information to him in order to satisfy him regarding my service.
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http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/10/01/the-u-s-apologizes-for-intentionally-infecting-guatemalans-with-stds/#comments
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Note the exchange beginning at item 6, but especially the comments from about 6.9 on. (I will admit to having given as good as I got but, read on.)
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Toward the end, it became obvious he was “fishing” for personal information of a type that an “identity thief” (or someone with access to a private investigator) could use to get locations, employers, addresses, financial info, etc.
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I refused to provide it to him for the reasons I gave.
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After the exchange this afternoon, I am convinced that he is not only uninterested in a meaningful discussion but pathologically unable to tolerate disagreement – and very vindictive.
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His refusal to apologize for comments made to Karen Tumulty (while she was part of Time) are all part of the pattern.
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His reaction toward the end pretty well confirmed my suspicions.
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I now consider him dangerous – not just from a “left vs. right” point of view, but actually, physically, dangerous.

mr afguy:
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First and foremost the only thing you have proven to me and others is the fact that you are a paranoid nutball.
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Nothing more, and nothing less.
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People like you seem to want to pick a fight. All the name calling, all of the allegations, all of the basic school yard bullcrap that 90% of the commenter’s on this site post when they cannot defend their position with facts or the truth.
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As the truth escapes people like you, when you do not have facts to back up your statements, you then go for the jugular of attacking someone’s credibility, anonymously.
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I will tell you like I have told IQ53, patricksartor, momento, and the rest of your kind. I frankly do not give a damn what you may think of me or my comments. I could care less what you think or what you think you may be accomplishing by even communicating with me.
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As I said, you began the attack on me and my comments. You began to say things about me which you do not even have the slightest bit of knowledge about. However, I will most definitely defend myself, that much you can count on.

afguy – I feel the august sages and philosophers of the Wu Tang Clan put it best when they said, “This ain’t Trading Spaces! Protect your goddamn neck!”
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http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=11887&title=wu-tang-financial
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In other words, if you’re getting into arguments about identity on a blog with anonymous comments, you’re doing it wrong.
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Look at the harassment patricksartor has gotten for posting under his name.
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There’s nothing to be gained from arguing about identity on a blog with anonymous comments.
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Also:
After the exchange this afternoon, I am convinced that he is not only uninterested in a meaningful discussion but pathologically unable to tolerate disagreement – and very vindictive.
,
Thanks for noticing. I wish people would catch on a little sooner, but it took me a long time to come to that conclusion too.

Point taken, Cliff.
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I think I’ll just take your unspoken advice and not expect any meaningful discussion form that quarter.
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But, I have to admit, he IS a special case.
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But, I do wonder, if he doesn’t care WHAT we think of his opinions… why post here at all?
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The only obvious answer is that he’s here just to stir things up, NOT convince ANYONE of his point of view.

Blackwater became Ze, pronounced with an Sh and long e sound

7.5 – artraveler,

“Of course, some of these are cheaply paid Bangladesh cleaners or Phillipino cooks so the actual dolla cost may be less than that but everyone of those is a U. S, job that doesn’t exist and a hugh profit for Halliburton, KBR, and whatever Whitewater calls itself nowdays.”

The workers themselves may be cheaply paid, but we pay big bucks to the KBRs, etc., so they make a VERY nice profit on each.
Often those companies hand the job off to recruiters, who take their cut of the contracts (while also charging the workers “recruitment fees”) to get the job.

The war has been outsourced to avoid the draft.

The draft would end the war, and everyone would stop making money on it. By being outsourced almost no one has people they know in the armed forces, and their kids are safe, so no one protest (and if they did they’d be labeled terrorist and hauled off by the FBI) – and the war goes on, the big money goes on…. and Washington goes on this is what you get when you elect Democrats and Republicans – war

It is just a number thrown out there. What are the details? Who, doing what, for whom, is what is needed to make sense of this number.
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The number is large but, they certainly are all or nearly all Mercenaries.

That should be certainty are “NOT” all Mercenaries.

“I will tell you like I have told IQ53, patricksartor, momento, and the rest of your kind.”
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I couldn’t care less what you do for a living, your past history, how much you make, what church you go to, how old you are, or virtually any other detail about you.
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But apparently asking you what you mean when you blame America’s problems on “welfare Blacks”, or request you clarify whether or not you honestly believed that Obama might be the anti-Christ, or critically question any of your more paranoid declarations, is enough to put me on some sort of list your keeping.
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For someone so persecuted, trust me on this: You’re spending a helluva lot more time thinking about me than I am thinking about you.

All the real Merikans are moving to Abu Dhabi.

As reported by the the New York Times earlier this week, court documents indicated that Prince moved to the United Arab Emirates, and current and former colleagues said Prince wanted to focus on security work for African and the Middle Eastern governments. Prince, they told the Times, was bitter about both the legal scrutiny and negative publicity his company received.

Blackwater, or Xe Services as it is now known, is for sale, and former top managers at the company are facing criminal charges, as announced by federal prosecutors in April.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/lawyer_with_suit_against_blackwater_founder_chases.php

But not to worry, he has a book coming out that will blame Clinton and, of course, Obama. Wants the company sale completed and the book out before the elections because it will “destroy the Democrats.” That’s taking responsibility! More than numbers in the WaPo link below.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/spy-talk/2010/09/blackwater_chief_erik_prince_t.html

Exactly. To anyone who works at a government agency, this is not news. Privitization of government has been going on since at least the time of Bush the elder. IMHO, this is one of the totally under-reported stories of the last few decades. And we all wonder why we have oil spills in the gulf, our food is not safe to eat, and 10% of the population controls 80% of the wealth.
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When I started with my agency in 1987, there were 1800 federal employees. We now have 235. The total numbers of people have not changed all that much; the balance are now contractors. It is not working out well. I can’t imagine that other agencies are different, but I wouldn’t know, since no journalist that I am aware of has actually looked into this. The WaPo series is a good start, but only a start.
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Everyone is justifiably upset by Republicans’ hopes to privatize Social Security. From my perspective, they’re working on that because they have pretty much succeeded at privatizing everthing else. And the sad part, is that we don’t see much of a difference between Republican and Democratic administrations. It’s just a matter of degree.

I frankly do not give a damn what you may think of me or my comments. I could care less what you think or what you think you may be accomplishing by even communicating with me.
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Followed shortly thereafter by:
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However, I will most definitely defend myself, that much you can count on.
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For not giving a damn, he sure seems to piss his pants a lot.

I thought Eric Prince was a gung-ho kill-’em-all Christian? Are the Saudis going to let him go on a weekly peasant hunt out there in the dunes?

So was is 262 or 681? Make up your mind! That’s a big difference! I…oh…damn.

Damn.

The little coward Prince, who has supervised war crimes against not only our “enemies” but against our own troops, runs to the UAE for protection. The actions of a bully and criminal. He is a fundamentalist Christianist. Odd choice, no? Perhaps it is because there is no extradition treaty between the US and the UAE? Unfortunately, both Dems and Reps are probably sighing in relief. The continued support of this company was a real bipartisan effort.
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http://www.thenation.com/blog/blackwaters-erik-prince-moving-united-arab-emirates

Mark, have a scotch and soda on me.

Cliff,
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“Look at the harassment patricksartor has gotten for posting under his name.”.
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Cliff I find your comment regarding Patrick rather comical. Patrick has asked me and several other conservatives on this site for our personal information on many occasions so he can make sure we are who we say we are. Am I an Ex-CEO? Is Earl a doctor etc.? Patrick may not be a good example to use.
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Regarding afguy I have stopped replying to his posts because he does too much name calling and insults anyone who disagrees with him. Newfreedom is very correct in his statement that afguy is totally obnoxious.
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Regarding newfreedom his posts are no worse than those made by many of the Liberals on this site. If all you Liberals want are posts by people that agree with you, than of what value is Swampland?
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If you truly believe in you Liberal views than you should be willing to defend them. That’s the American way.

.

3X – I was referring to a period right after patricksartor started posting here.
He got in an argument with groehagen2, and groenhagen2 looked that name up and started making personal attacks against patricksartor.
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I used patricksartor as an example of why you shouldn’t use your entire real name on the blogs. And if he’s trying to get you guys’ personal info, that makes him even more of a damn fool.
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You say that liberals here won’t defend their views. Do you have questions that aren’t getting answered?

Oh.
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We’re talking about Erik Prince, trust fund billionaire, one time Navy Seal turned mercenary.
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http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://commentsfromleftfield.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/erik-prince.jpg&imgrefurl=http://commentsfromleftfield.com/2007/10/blackwater-1-a-short-history&usg=__fEUTfL9vu6fZVLWOWqw2V9U-crk=&h=240&w=190&sz=15&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=uS3S1ToLCqBaUM:&tbnh=148&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Derik%2Bprince%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1440%26bih%3D749%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Divnlo&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=367&vpy=306&dur=2002&hovh=192&hovw=152&tx=95&ty=100&ei=K9qnTMf8N8WAlAey57W2DA&oei=K9qnTMf8N8WAlAey57W2DA&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:0
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Not to be mistaken with Prince:
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http://vodpod.com/watch/1176769-prince-little-red-corvette

allthings,
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“That should be certainty are “NOT” all Mercenaries.”
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As usual great minds think alike. Allthings you beat me to this question.
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Does anyone have any factual data that is not biased right or left as to how many of the contractor personnel are operating in an offensive military mode? These are the ones I believe are true Mercenaries.
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According to Webster a Mercenary is a solder hired to “fight” for a foreign ruler, army or cause.
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If they are doing normal civilian type work such as driving a truck or working on a military base I don’t think the term mercenaries really appieses.
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If they are performing duties as gate guards, body guards, or acting in a role of security, I not sure I would classify them as mercenaries.
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I guess what I’m asking is does anyone have information on what work these contractor personal are actually doing. I think too often people jump to conclusions without getting the facts.
Another question is why has this number increased so much in 2009 and 2010?

“Does anyone have any factual data that is not biased right or left as to how many of the contractor personnel are operating in an offensive military mode?”
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Technically, there are no contractors in an offensive position.
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Since this is the answer you wanted to hear (since you worship George W Bush, who began using this many contractors) I am not going to Google to a source. I read it somewhere.
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Although Blackwater/Xe can say that they are not technically mercenaries, the duties they perform as body guards among other things do involve combat.
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The concern is not the exact definition of the word “mercenary” as the article does not say that they are, but, that the motivation behind contractors is to make a profit at taxpayer’s expense rather than national service.
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This time you can do your own googling, 3X unless it was a trick question.

The report says it doesn’t know.
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http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d111.pdf
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Second quarter 2010
Total contractors Iraq and Afgan. 207,553
providing security 28,343

Afgaan security 16,753
Iraq security 11,610
Security personal authorized to carry fire arms
Irag 11,500
Afgan 1,910
.

” Patrick has asked me and several other conservatives on this site for our personal information on many occasions so he can make sure we are who we say we are.”
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Let me say this again:
.
If you say again and again, “I am a former CEO” and then do a victory dance to say that this means you won the debate, then I will ask you to provide proof of that and, furthermore, what you work had to do with climate change, Keynesian macroeconomics, immigration, unions, public schools or any other topic so that you can use your credentials as a means of winning an debate.
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I do not know of any private for profit company which studies public schools, unions, Keynesian macroeconomics, climate change or immigration, but, you still use “I am a former CEO” as a reason to do a victory dance with Earl, who ends every debate before his victory dance with “I am a doctor”.
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If you care to bring in facts, then link the facts and I could hardly care less who you are.
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Due to being independent, Groenhaggen did not do any harm to my work, but, the fact that he intended to was very disturbing.
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When you did explain how your life experiences dealt with immigration consisting of your driving past a construction site for a new Wal-Mart presuming that the men you saw were all Latinos, all immigrants (some Latinos are tenth generation Americans) and included many illegal immigrants, at least I knew what your life experiences were and how you were drawing a huge number of conclusions from very limited information.
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By contrast, among other things she has done Apr was a former teacher, but never says that having been a teacher means that she won the debate. She uses links to known people with known facts and then, after using those facts to support an argument, sites that it matches some of her personal experiences.
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If you could go for just a week or two without reminding us how great you believe your life experiences are, then I would not bother asking you who you are.

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Patric,
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‘Technically, there are no contractors in an offensive position.
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Since this is the answer you wanted to hear (since you worship George W Bush, who began using this many contractors) I am not going to Google to a source. I read it somewhere.”
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Patrick,
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You’re such a nutcase.
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I don’t know why I bother to reply to your comments. You are so childlike that it’s impossible to have a real discussion with you.

.

You’re such a nutcase.
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I don’t know why I bother to reply to your comments. You are so childlike that it’s impossible to have a real discussion with you.
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Voila!
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THE “boilerplate” 3xfire3 response. That it’s “impossible to have a real discussion with <fill in the blank>”.
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And the mandatory reference to “childlike, lack of maturity”, etc.
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What’s missing is any actual response to the other’s points being made. Par for the course.
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Support for these wars is becoming what passes for a national jobs/stimulus program in this country.

“You’re such a nutcase.”
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Is this the same man who says that he loves polite dialog?
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I had gotten the facts, I believe, from Frontline or 60 minutes, but, clearly, you were gearing towards saying that Blackwater was not a company of mercenaries.
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So, given that as the facts, I didn’t both googling it.
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Are you going to say that you would have been happier if the facts showed that GWB, your hero, had hired Mercenaries for the first time in US history?

For what it’s worth, Blackwater has not taken over standard Army, Navy, Air Force or Marine duties, but has done the grunt work for the CIA.
.
“Published: December 10, 2009 WASHINGTON — Private security guards from Blackwater Worldwide participated in some of the C.I.A.’s most sensitive activities — clandestine raids with agency officers against people suspected of being insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan and the transporting of detainees, according to former company employees and intelligence officials.[...]
.
Several former Blackwater guards said that their involvement in the operations became so routine that the lines supposedly dividing the Central Intelligence Agency, the military and Blackwater became blurred. Instead of simply providing security for C.I.A. officers, they say, Blackwater personnel at times became partners in missions to capture or kill militants in Iraq and Afghanistan, a practice that raises questions about the use of guns for hire on the battlefield.

Separately, former Blackwater employees said they helped provide security on some C.I.A. flights transporting detainees in the years after the 2001 terror attacks in the United States.”
.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/11/us/politics/11blackwater.html
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So the line has been very blurred to say the least, but, I strongly suspect, since you are an ideologue that you will still say that GWB did not hire mercenaries.
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Please note that the CIA’s use of Blackwater had become regular by December 10th of 2009, beginning significantly before the Obama presidency.
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Thanks Afguy.
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3X thinks that everybody who is not in lockstep with him in his highly conservative beliefs is insane.
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He is welcome to go to Redstate or any conservative blog where the throw out people who do not agree with them and hear his own echo all of the time.