"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Repeal Don't Pass

The Senate — leery of being steamrolled into a pre-election vote on abolishing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” before the Pentagon completes its study on the impact of its repeal — decided Tuesday against lifting the 17-year-old law. Senators voted 56-43, failing to get the 60 votes needed to end a Republican filibuster and allow an actual vote on ending the ban.

Even pop chanteuse Lady Gaga’s trek to Maine on Monday in a last-ditch effort to convince Maine’s two moderate GOP senators to back repeal fell short. While both of the Maine lawmakers cited political reasons for their opposition, their “no” votes nonetheless helped doom pro-repeal hopes. Both Arkansas Democrats, Senators Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor, sided with all 40 Republicans present in voting “no” (Majority Leader Harry Reid changed his vote to “no” at the last minute in a procedural move that lets him call for a revote). Backers of repeal say they still have a “slim shot” of prevailing in the lame-duck session following the Nov. 2 elections, and after the completion of the Pentagon study, due Dec. 1, into the impact of lifting the ban.

Tuesday’s wound was, in part, self-inflicted — seeming to play politics with the issue while the nation is waging two wars gave those on the fence a reason to oppose ending the ban. Senator John McCain, Arizona Republican and former Navy pilot, said the vote had the smell of partisan politics. “One can only draw the conclusion that this is all about elections” — energizing gay voters — the senior Republican on the armed services committee said. “Not about the welfare, the well-being, the morale and the battle effectiveness of the men and women who are laying it on the line in Iraq and Afghanistan today.”

DoD photo

Some Pentagon officials believe repeal would have been a done deal if the political calendar hadn’t intruded. Gay advocates agree, and also believe repeal could have happened if — like dozens of militaries around the world — the U.S. simply dropped the ban and commanded its troops to follow orders, as it did when President Harry Truman integrated the military in 1948.

But several elements combined into a perfect storm that  dashed the effort to end “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”:

– First of all, there was concern that Majority Leader Reid’s push for the vote was driven by Democratic fears that their effort to end the ban — a key promise of their party’s leader, President Obama — will be more difficult after the election, when their party is expected to lose seats in both houses of Congress. The House voted in May to lift the ban. “Now is not the time to play politics simply because an election is looming in a few weeks,” Senator Susan Collins of Maine said on the floor. Her opposition was especially striking, because she was the only GOP member of the Senate Armed Services Committee to vote to repeal the law in May.

– That rush to repeal clashed with the Pentagon’s own plan for studying the impact of lifting the ban — including a broad survey of military personnel and their families — which isn’t due until December. Even though the law requires that Obama, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, have to certify that ending the ban won’t hurt military readiness, some Pentagon officials view the vote as premature. McCain read comments from the four service chiefs expressing their opposition to Congress voting for repeal before the Pentagon finishes its study of the ramifications of the change. “It couldn’t be more clear what our uniformed service chiefs are saying — complete this review before repealing the law,” he told his colleagues on the Senate floor. Few moderate lawmakers want to vote against the expressed wishes of the military’s uniformed leadership in a time of war.

– Further giving pause was Reid’s decision to allow only a handful of amendments to come to the floor for debate before the election, including the one that would allow gays to serve openly. “The Senate should have the ability to debate more than the three amendments the majority leader is allowing,” Senator Olympia Snowe, a Maine Republican, telegraphing her opposition before the vote.

“Today’s Senate vote was a frustrating blow to repeal this horrible law,” said Aubrey Sarvis, an Army veteran and director of the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, which has fought for repeal since shortly after Congress passed the law in 1993. “We lost because of the political maneuvering dictated by the mid-term elections.”

The final blow for those seeking repeal was the testimony, only hours before the vote, of General James Amos, nominated as the next commandant of the Marine Corps. He told the Senate Armed Services Committee he feared that lifting the ban would be a “distraction” for Marines fighting in Afghanistan. “My primary concern with proposed repeal is the potential disruption to cohesion that may be caused by significant change during a period of extended combat operations,” he told the panel in a written statement he provided for his confirmation hearing in a written statement provided to the panel for his confirmation hearing. That kind of language gave opponents of lifting the ban all the ammunition they needed.

Related Topics: don't ask don't tell, National Security
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  • newfreedomblog

    One down, one to go. What about good ‘ol Harry’s Dream Act, will that or did that go down too, Michael? Let’s hope so.

  • Ivy_B

    Wimps. All of them.

  • http://www.ghostnote.com Juan Valdez

    Utterly feckless all around. Maybe Endora could shake things up in the USS.

  • Art Pepper

    Good thing there are still some moderates in the GOP who are willing to work in a bipartisan fashion.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “The Senate… decided Tuesday against lifting the 17-year-old law. Senators voted 56-43, failing to get the 60 votes needed to end a Republican filibuster and allow an actual vote on ending the ban”
    .
    The second sentence isn’t the same as the first.
    .
    60 votes to pass anything has become so accepted that a simple majority is now meaningless.
    .
    And everyone yawns.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Two Democratic senators, Mark Pryor and Blanche Lincoln, both from Arkansas, voted with Republicans to block the bill.
    .
    That’ll bring eveyone back to you Blanche.
    .
    Why you may get as much as 29% in November.

  • Art Pepper

    Good point. “Repeal doesn’t pass” is technically accurate, but in fact there was not actually a vote on repealing DADT.
    .
    Remember when Republicans used to chant “up or down vote!”? Good times.

  • m0mentom0ri

    I also heard somewhere that they’re adjourning a week early and will regroup after the mid-terms. Y’know when things will be even better for the Dems.
    .
    My early pick for the 2010 Worst Democratic Politician Without an Indictment is Harry Reid.

  • sacredh

    If there’s any good to come out of this, it’s that the republicans have to know that they need 60 votes to get anything they want done after the November elections.

  • jollypants

    I think it’s disgraceful and reckless for the DEMOCRATS to drop this explosive social issue on the Military like a bomb at a time when our soldiers are trying to fight two wars simultaneously. It says to me that the DEMOCRATS are more interested in advancing liberal social agendas than in winning wars. Are people like that really the kind of people you want in charge of Congress?

  • CP in FL

    The rules of the senate need to be changed at the beginning of the next congress so that majority rule can be re-instated. The filibuster has made the senate into a useless body that produces horrible legislation. The minority party should not be able to block the will of the majority. The filibuster needs to die, and soon.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “Remember when Republicans used to chant “up or down vote!”? Good times.”
    .
    How could anyone forget? It would be discussed on the Sunday morning shows and written about.
    .
    When was the last time you saw or heard about “obstructionist republicans”?

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Partly the mortal wound was self-inflicted — seeming to play politics with the issue
    -
    Nuts to you.
    -
    http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/09/20/don_t_ask_don_t_tell_is_hurting_the_war_effort_it_is_wasteful_and_it_is_wrong
    -
    The impact of the policy is well-known.
    -
    Waiting until now to conduct a review seems to play politics with the issue.
    -
    And I thought we were well beyond quoting John McCain, of all things, as the voice of wise bipartisan moderation.

  • Ivy_B

    A perspective from our old swampland pal –

    @pourmecoffee Gays are most powerful beings to ever walk the Earth; by simply being can destroy marriages, the military, society itself.

  • newfreedomblog

    “Are people like that really the kind of people you want in charge of Congress?”

    .
    Simply put………….HELL NO!!
    .
    We the People are now taking over, and it is crazy leftist social issues such as this that takes away valuable time from concentrating on what is most important. Getting our troops the heck out of Afghanistan and getting people back to work again.
    .
    JOBS JOBS JOBS!! Harry Reid is about ready to be retired!! Hooray!!

  • CP in FL

    You can always tell a WINGNUT because they use all CAPS to make their point. It does not make their case any more valid, but they keep trying.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “What about good ‘ol Harry’s Dream Act, will that or did that go down too, Michael? Let’s hope so”
    .
    So you’re against citizenship for children who came here as minors and have been living in the country for more than five years. Shocker.
    .
    So Rusty, do we just ship them back to a country they barely know or can we slap the lil effers in jail for a few years first? What’s your humane solution, Rusty? Deport the lil buggers or arrest ‘em? Show us some of that ‘compassionate conservatism’ I’ve heard so much about.
    .
    Or prove once again you’re a heartless shell of a human being and, once again, against something just because Democrats are for it.

  • sacredh

    It depends on who controls the senate. I think the republicans might makes noises like they want to change the filibuster rule IF they get control, but it will only be paying lip service to it. They don’t want it at all because they know they’ll need it again in the future.

  • apr2563

    newrusty: Please go gloat to the families of gay and lesbian service members who died in service. Please visit in person those who are wounded and permanently injured. Go to those who survive and ask to have their medals taken from them. Or, are you too cowardly to face them in person.
    If the Dream Act fails, please do the same for those “illegals” who have served nobley. Considering your narrow views, you probably feel the same way about Muslim service people.
    Man up NewRusty. Don’t hide behind your keyboard.

  • m0mentom0ri

    Really?
    .
    Do you really think the Dems will show that much backbone? Did they ever show it with Bush? Is there anything in their current messaging that indicates that they’ll obstruct the GOP’s agenda?
    .
    The blue dogs will team up with the GOP and run rampant. Just like always.

  • conversets

    Headline should be:

    REPUBLICANS REFUSE TO FUND FIGHTING TROOPS
    Americans in Harm’s Way Will Go Without Needed Supplies Because of Republican Votes

  • apr2563

    Thanks Elvis. I linked to this article by Ricks on another thread. I hope everyone reads it.

  • m0mentom0ri

    jollypants posts at 3:28p
    .
    newfreedomblog responds at 3:31p
    .
    Two people? Or Rusty and a sock puppet?
    .
    We report. You decide.

  • newfreedomblog

    Headline should read: DEMOCRATS ATTEMPT TO SLIDE MORE SOCIAL ISSUE AMENDMENTS INTO APPROPRIATIONS BILLS TO CIRCUMVENT THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.
    .
    How’s that?
    .
    Enjoy my little libtards!!
    .
    :)

  • newfreedomblog

    Hey april2563, got any names of those gay and lesbian servicemen or women who have died in action?

  • sacredh

    You’re right. There will be democrats that will cross the aisle and vote to pass bills that need to be passed. Democrats will put country first. With republicans it’s always party first, country when it’s convienient for the party..

  • m0mentom0ri

    “got any names of those gay and lesbian servicemen or women who have died in action?”
    .
    Why? So you can go harass their parents and family? Maybe Michelle Malkin can go stake out their houses and dig through their garbage. Or Andrebart Briebart can send in his cleverly disguised minions?
    .
    You’re a walking insult to those who have and are serving their country while you sit around and mock them.

  • http://24ahead.com/ kattest123

    m0mentom0ri (of course) isn’t telling you the whole truth about the DA.
    .
    The DA is an openly anti-American bill: it would let illegal aliens take college educations away from citizens.
    .
    For example, let’s say a college has 10 slots available, and 11 people apply: 10 citizens and one illegal alien. If the college chooses the illegal alien, that means that only 9 citizens were accepted. And, that means that 1 citizen was not accepted. And, all of that means that an illegal alien took a college education away from a U.S. citizen.
    .
    Anyone who supports the DA is siding with foreign citizens against the best interests of their fellow citizens.
    .
    Click this link to read more about the anti-American DREAM Act.

  • darius3

    Here’s a simpler explanation:
    .
    The bill failed because 40 Republicans (and two extremely conservative Dems) voted against it.
    .
    (Reid voted “No” for procedural reasons, and therefore doesn’t count.)

  • hailtodavictors

    to start, Major Alan Rogers. Newfreedom, by asking for the names, are you thinking that there weren’t any? Just curious as to your motivations

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/death-of-a-gay.html

  • m0mentom0ri

    Oo, I got one, too!
    .
    4 August 2005
    .
    “US Senate Republican leadership has publicly decried Democrat efforts to block Presidential nominations that require Senate approval. Senate leadership threatens to invoke a “nuclear option” which would ban the minority from blocking judicial nominees. Some news reports have characterized the filibuster, a historical method used to delay vote or block debate, as unconstitutional, unfair, a historical relic.”
    .
    Ah, memories….

  • Ivy_B

    No, it will be the same thing that happened before. If the Democrats dare try to threaten a filibuster, the Republicans will scream unfair and threaten to invoke the dreaded nuclear option and then the Democrats will fold.

  • scooterfox

    why do you want their names, newf? so they can be dishonorably discharged posthumously? jerk.

  • grape_crush

    Wow. From Mark’s post, I can clearly see that it’s the Dems’ fault for even trying to enact legislation against the wishes of the GOP minority.

    …the U.S. simply dropped the ban and commanded its troops to follow orders…

    My (imperfect) understanding is that DADT is law, which can’t just be ‘dropped’ like a ban could be.

    Partly the mortal wound was self-inflicted — seeming to play politics with the issue while the nation is waging two wars gave those on the fence a reason to oppose ending the ban.

    “And just as an aside, try to imagine the response from Republicans and the media if, under Bush/Cheney, every Senate Democrat united to filibuster a debate on the defense spending bill in the midst of two wars.”

    Senator John McCain, Arizona Republican and former Navy pilot, said the vote had the smell of partisan politics about it.

    The saying is that a skunk smells its own scent first.

    “Now is not the time to play politics simply because an election is looming in a few weeks,” Senator Susan Collins of Maine said on the floor.

    Then, umm, why did she vote for the bill when it was in her committee only to vote against even debating it?

    That rush to repeal clashed with the Pentagon’s own plan for studying the impact of lifting the ban — including a broad survey of military personnel and their families.

    One wonders how military personnel and their families would feel about stop-lossing and continued deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan if surveyed.

  • Ivy_B

    Greg Sargent points out the difference between the two parties.

    The GOP just blocked the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell in the Senate, and the immediate conclusion to be drawn is that this is yet more proof that GOP obstructionism works brilliantly.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/09/gop_obstructionism_works_part.html

  • m0mentom0ri

    Better yet, read the Wiki article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act
    .
    kattest, by your logic, A woman going to college only takes spots from men, minorities going to college only takes spots from whites, etc, etc. The DREAM act isn’t about college admissions policies, its about the child of illegal immigrants, who came here as a minor and graduated high school, should be allowed a chance to go to college and gain citizenship. It’s not a plot to destroy America. It’s what America is all about. It’s not called “The Land of Opportunity” for nothing.
    .
    I’ll ask you what I asked Rusty: What is your solution for these children? Deportation or imprisonment?

  • fractal86

    Kattest, it’s far worse than that. Consider a store in say NY that is offering 50% off shirts to the first 5 buyers that day. Now 4 of the first 5 buyers are tourists: that means 4 real Americans have just been screwed out of cheap shirts! Why don’t we prevent tourists from taking our goods?
    .
    Maybe if that 10th American was smarter he’d get a college place instead of the immigrant.

  • shepherdwong

    Senator John McCain, Arizona Republican and former Navy pilot, said the vote had the smell of partisan politics about it. “One can only draw the conclusion that this is all about elections”…
    .
    Well you have to take his word for it. If anyone should know…

  • redlotuspetal68

    It would have been brave to repeal, “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” but as has been typical of politicians, they are not willing to risk their own survival to stand up for what is right. I am starting to believe I made the wrong decision years ago to become a Democrat. I think the Left is where I belong. It is a very sad day again.

  • newfreedomblog

    Been there and done that april2563. As a matter of fact all the way back to my great great great grandpap served in the military.
    .
    Got any more slams for me lady?

  • hippooath

    Republicans – we are for the troops when we can use them politically. When they’re wounded, they’re homosexual, Muslims or come from a different country to fight for ours; not so much. Because as we all know – all soldiers are conservative – and if they’re not they’re gay or Muslims. Or sumthin.
    .
    Newfreedom…wouldn’t you find yourself in a pickle if one day a gay soldier saves your @ss simply because he love his or her constitution more than your anti-American @ss?
    .
    At what point to you say – get off me you f@g? Right after you’re safe? Or before? Do you run trying to protect your n@rds or butt – I mean it’s obvious that every g@y soldier will forget their duty and want to play submarine with you. Torpedoes away, right?
    .
    We all know just how amoral they all are that chose to be gay.

  • newfreedomblog

    hailto:
    .
    No motives. And I would have been proud to have served with Maj Rogers. As a matter of fact, I really do not have an issue with DADT. The point being however, I do have a problem as most military servicemen and women do have a problem with gay activist agendas. That is all DADT is all about.
    .
    Another “victory” in the pockets of Democrats and Liberals. PERIOD.
    .
    Let the study by the Dept of Defense happen. If the majority of those fine Americans serving in the military do not care like me then so be it, lift the policy and allow gays and lesbians to announce their sexual preferences.
    .
    I think as others have also said, we have a whole lot more to worry about in this country than who is or isn’t gay in the military. Got it?

  • apr2563

    Thanks for the back up guys. NewRusty prefers to make cruel statements about groups of people. As I said, he is a coward.

  • kathy

    I was thinking the same thing today. McCain paints American soldiers as extraordinarily weak human beings.
    .
    I miss pourmecoffee, but I’m not a twitterer

  • jsfox

    http://www.palmcenter.org/press/dadt/releases/gay_soldier_killed_action_afghanistan

    SANTA BARBARA, CA, February 24, 2010 – Congressman Jim Moran read a letter on the floor of the House of Representatives today from an active duty soldier in Afghanistan. Congressman Moran stated that the soldier had, “learned that a fellow soldier was also gay, only after he was killed by an IED in Iraq. The partner of the deceased soldier wrote the unit to say how much the victim had loved the military; how they were the only family he had ever known.” The soldier originally provided the letter in response to an inquiry for the Pentagon’s current study of “don’t ask, don’t tell.”

    This is the second publicly known case of a gay soldier killed in action during the current wars in the Middle East. The first was U.S. Army Major Alan Rogers, who died while on patrol in Iraq in January, 2008. Statisticians have estimated that more than 200 gay and lesbian service members have perished since the onset of the conflict. Military leaders this week suggested in Congressional hearings that gay and lesbian troops disrupt the force.

  • kathy

    Mark: What’s with “Repeal don’t pass?” ?? No proofread?

    Besides, this wasn’t going to be a repeal of DADT, it was going to put the repeal in place IF it was approved by the military. A dumb move, in my opinion, but approval would not have repealed DADT

    I think on the whole it’s just as well for the Dems that it didn’t pass at the moment. The loss (whoever gets it) gins up the base, and there was no point in ginning up the Rep. base.

  • http://24ahead.com/ kattest123

    m0mentom0ri (of course) doesn’t understand basic logic. Whenever there are more applicants than slots for anything, some people will lose out. (m0mentom0ri: It’s an extremely simple concept called “a zero sum game” or in terms you can understand, musical chairs.)
    .
    In this case, those losing out are my fellow citizens: illegal aliens would be allowed to take college educations away from my fellow citizens.
    .
    Now, to Global Citizens like m0mentom0ri , that doesn’t matter: in his mind, taking a valuable, non-partitive item that an American needs in order to give it to a foreign citizen who’s here illegally isn’t just OK, it’s a good thing. However, if you’re an American, that’s not OK in the least.
    .
    Further, m0mentom0ri is hurting poor foreign countries. The DA lets those foreign countries’ leaders off the hook – they don’t need to provide for their own citizens. At the same time, it helps braindrain those poor foreign countries. And, the latter also helps those countries’ elites: they like uneducated people because those are the ones who don’t cause as much trouble.
    .
    Those covered by the DA can go back to their own countries and help those countries. In many cases they can get free or low-cost educations.
    .
    Once you actually think it through, the DA is indefensible.
    .
    Click this link to read more about the anti-American DREAM Act.

  • diecash1

    What’s disgraceful is your (and rustyblogwhore’s) obviously misguided moral compass.
    ..
    When is the proper time to end an unjust (and reprehensible) policy? The answer is always now.

  • hailtodavictors

    “No motives. And I would have been proud to have served with Maj Rogers.”

    - ok, newfreedom, so why did u ask in the first place?

    “Let the study by the Dept of Defense happen. If the majority of those fine Americans serving in the military do not care like me then so be it, lift the policy and allow gays and lesbians to announce their sexual preferences.”

    -If the majority of servicemen did believe in the racial segregation of the army just after WWII, do you think they should have kept it that way? I thought the army was all about following the orders of your superior. Why does it matter what the majority of soldiers think?

    I believe they should get rid of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell because they are discriminating against a minority for a reason that has nothing to do with their army-related skills. Let them be who they are and defend our country side-by-side with their straight countrymen!

  • Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Senator John McCain, Arizona Republican and former Navy pilot, said the vote had the smell of partisan politics about it.

    Also, too, if you’re going to use McCain’s biography to give context to his vote, instead of only reaching back forty years, why not reach back just two and add “… and who picked Sarah Palin to be a heartbeat away from the position of Commander-in-Chief”?

    But this tells us more about Mark Thompson than about anything else.

  • hailtodavictors

    a formatting question to all. When my post is “previewed”, I’m be able to get paragraph breaks but they don’t show up when it actually posts.

    Is there some special way to separate text into paragraphs while posting?

  • shepherdwong

    I think on the whole it’s just as well for the Dems that it didn’t pass at the moment.
    .
    Based upon certain appeals to the base *cough* the public option *cough* in the past, you have to wonder whether Obama and the conservadems thought the same thing.

    The final blow for those seeking repeal was the testimony, only hours before the vote, of General James Amos, nominated as the next commandant of the Marine Corps.

    He may be a Republican (he’s a Marine) but he still works for the White House.

  • textee

    How dare the Republicans prevent “Gay pride” parades on military installations! At change of command ceremonies, the out-going commanders will still not be able to kiss their same-sex “spouses”. Furthermore, I’m sure that West Point cadets are extremely disappointed that they won’t be invited (i.e., won’t be forced) to go to their sponsor’s home and spend a Saturday afternoon with Captain Joe Blow and his lover Steve. They will be especially disappointed that they won’t get to see same-sex lovers on Flirtation Walk or walking hand-in-hand across the Plain.

    Evidently, the Republicans have not heard that some lawless, anti-military lunatic calling herself a federal, so-called “judge”, who knows absolutely nothing about the United States military, has just declared that preventing homosexuals from serving in the military does damage to the United States military and is “unconstitutional”?

    Sorry, people, but turning the United States military into “Little San Francisco” would do nothing but destroy the United States military. Get over it. Move on. Stop attempting to impose your fundamentalist religious cult on the United States military and its values and warrior culture. Got it?

  • m0mentom0ri

    kattest, the DREAM Act is a path to citizenship. Its one of the reasons I support it. It’s not a gift to foreign citizens, its a conversion of the children illegal immigrants into contributing citizens, college educated at that. Yes, they could emigrate away from the U.S. after they become citizens, you or I could, too. That’s a right of any citizen.
    .
    40% of illegal immigrants in this country came her legally and overstayed their VISAs. A good chunk of those are student VISAs. Are you outraged about that? Are they taking musical chairs away from real Americans, too?
    .
    I’m vehemently against illegal immigration. We should use the USVISIT data to track down overstayed VISAs and protect both borders from illegal crossings. Those in the country should be assimilated via citizenship if they’re contributing, or deported if they’re not. What I’m not for is a xenophobic purging of American based on what border you crossed and what language you spoke first. So, next time you accuse me of being a ‘Global Citizen’ for supporting a program that converts illegal aliens into American citizens, you may want to ask where I stand first.

  • m0mentom0ri

    hailto, putting a period on its own line, between each paragraph, like this
    .
    is a decent workaround until the markup engineers fix the paragraph tag in the comments CSS

  • Ivy_B

    hailtodavictor… It is a feature of the WordPress software underlying the blog. If you post as a comment, a line break happens normally. If you post as a Reply to, it doesn’t. Preview lies in that case. (Just to keep us on our toes.)
    .
    The work around is to insert a character where you want a line break. It can be anything, but people generally use a period.
    .
    It is endlessly annoying to post a long comment, forget you are in Reply to, hit enter and see mush.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    I know it’s fun to blame the senate and (better) the GOP, but the President could have handled this in Jan. 2009:

    “A report issued last week by UC Santa Barbara’s Palm Center research institute said Obama had the power to thwart the discharging of military personnel for their sexual orientation. Under the ‘stop-loss’ provision, Obama can issue executive orders to retain any soldier deemed necessary to the service in a time of national emergency, the report said.

    The president also could halt the work of Pentagon review panels that brand troops as gay and thus excluded from service, the report said. And Obama and his Defense secretary could revise discharge procedures, as allowed under the 1993 law banning gays in the military.”

    http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/20/nation/na-dont-ask20

  • nflfoghorn

    “My primary concern with proposed repeal is they’ve got cooties.”
    .
    Fixed it for the General.

  • apr2563

    Another coward speaks up.

  • janiefinch

    “I guess there is only one question to answer; Does being a Marine say more about who a man really is than being a homosexual does?” – B.K.Dell

  • frenchys

    I give my opinion with my French Eyes on this subject.
    Here in Europe, we heard a little about this disposition through the press, or stars implication as Lady GaGa (and I saw her call).
    I’m very surprise to see a country which allow Gay marriage, and sometime adoption in several states, but, in parallel which is following this kind of old principles we saw during the Middle Age. It’s just a stupid persecution, it’s just again Human rights.

  • formerlyjames

    The faggot, queer, homosexuals can handle it. Same song, different verse. What’s new?

  • formerlyjames

    Hey, frenchys, welcome to the Swamp. It’s sort of like the romanians in France. Just mindless hate. Understand now?

  • hailtodavictors

    Much Thanks Mori & Ivy!
    .
    I’ve been a longtime follower of this blog but rarely a contributor. Decided that it’s time to try to pull my weight both in contributing to the discussion & fighting off the trolls where needed! :)

  • newfreedomblog

    Shut up apri2563. Did you serve your country? I didn’t think so, bag it lady. You do not impress anyone with your trollish comments.

  • seventhrama

    “The Senate should not be forced to make this decision before we hear from our troops.” This statement from Sen. John McCain, a former naval officer sounds rather shallow, if not disingenuous. As I recall (USN 68-72), the military is not a democracy. The ‘troops’ serve at the pleasure of the President. If the greatest military force on the planet cannot do its job for fear of someone looking at their privates, which happens to be the lowest military rank in the Army, then that military is not worthy of being called ‘great.’ There must be something in the water to makes us act this way.

  • scooterfox

    jollypop, what exactly does DADT have to do with winning wars?
    .
    besides, what war are we winning right now? i havent seen one that looks like victory to me.

  • harryr11

    I sent the following message today to The White House and the offices of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi:

    Re: Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell

    I am a gay man. For several years I was Treasurer of my local Democratic club in Bucks County, PA. I worked hard in the 1992 primaries and general election to elect Bill Clinton president, with the expectation that he would increase funding for AIDS research. He did not, beyond the rise to account for inflation. He signed DOMA, which made me, for the first time in nationwide legal history, a second class citizen in my own country. For the first time since I reached 21 I did not vote for President in 1996. I worked hard to get President Obama nominated in the primaries and elected in the 2008 general elections. I will work as hard for President Obama’s reelection in 2012 as hard as he has worked to reverse DADT and DOMA. I will also support Democrats to the extent that they have repealed DADT and DOMA. I am very tired of carrying water for Democratic causes and elected officials to find at the end of the day left with no water to drink. Given today’s vote in the Senate that President Obama did nothing to help carry the day, I am now looking for another political party to give my efforts to.

  • sacredh

    “I am now looking for another political party to give my efforts to.”
    .
    harryr11, I know you must be terribly disappointed, but the sad reality is that a democrat or a Tea Bagger/republican will be elected in 2012. There is no other party that has a chance. If you throw your vote away for a third party, it only increases the chance that a right winger gets elected. Will a right wing victory increase the chances of DADT getting repealed? Will a right wing President appoint someone to the Supreme Court that will rule DADT unconstitutional? A third party vote is a protest vote. Nothing more.

  • 3xfire3

    moment,
    .
    You’re Nuts.

  • sacredh

    I think I need another break. See you folks sometime before the election. Have fun.

  • 3xfire3

    seven,
    .
    .”The Senate should not be forced to make this decision before we hear from our troops.” This statement from Sen. John McCain, a former naval officer sounds rather shallow, if not disingenuous.”
    .
    As a Veteran, I can truthfully say the U. S. Military is by far the best fighting force in the world.
    .
    To attempt to rush this important decision through as part of another piece of legislation to try and score political points before the November election and before the report is completed by the Military is absolutely wrong.
    .
    If DADT is the right thing to do, it will be right when the military report is completed.
    .
    If it’s right lets do it the right way and stop trying to short cut the correct process.
    .
    The decision needs to be right for our men and women in harms way.

  • mjkoch

    In every war, from the Civil War, two world wars, the Korean and Vietnam Wars, and in Afghanistan and Iraq, gay Americans have served their country and shed blood for their country. On 911 they perished at the Pentagon and at the World Trade Center, and one of the people who tried to wrestle the hijackers in the plane that went down over Pennsylvania was gay. From the beaches of Normandy to the hills of Saigon, to the ruins at Ground Zero and to streets of Baghdad the sacrifice gay members of the military silently made to their country lies hidden, except to their closest friends and family members.

    Gay Americans are our sisters, brothers, friends, aunts, uncles, and neighbors. They are doctors, teachers, lawyers, judges, policemen, firemen, construction workers, chemists, accountants, athletes, and assembly line workers. They are and always have been willing to die on the battlefields our country fought on because they loved their country but it seems our country prefers to treat them as though they were dangerous aliens from another planet rather than see them as patriots who love their country who deserve to be treated just like we ourselves would like to be treated – with dignity and respect, not with hatred or discrimination. Is that too much to ask for?

  • newfreedomblog

    Go with Green, Harry….or you might look into the Libertarian Party. They really do not care about your sexual orientation. As a matter of fact a good Libertarian could care less if you married a toad.

  • apr2563

    Coward.

  • afguy

    As a matter of fact all the way back to my great great great grandpap served in the military.
    .
    Seem to remember us having this conversation before, Rusty…
    .
    Exactly WHEN was it you served, in what branch, and what was your career field?
    .
    When I asked you some time back, I recall that you avoided an answer.

  • apr2563

    You are right jcapan. I am again disappointed that he sat back, said little, while the Senate took the hit on this. It is a pattern I do not admire.

  • apr2563

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/07/us/politics/07candidates.html
    Would meaning voting for Green Party candidates recruited from the homeless by the Republicans in Arizona and other states?

  • apr2563

    mjkoch, no it is not too much to ask for.
    I hope I can find a video of Senator Al Franken’s speech on the floor of the Senate after the failure today. He spoke about his experience with the issue when he went to Iraq with the USO on a number of occasions. He was in tears and so was I.
    .
    Here, I found it:
    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/al-franken-chokes-up-over-dont-ask-dont-tell-video-1.php

  • stuartzechman

    Of course you’re right, Oregon JC.

  • stuartzechman

    Come on, sacredh!

  • diecash1

    You do not impress anyone with your trollish comments.

    And the winner for most ironic comment of the day is…………….rustyblogwhore!!!11!!!1! Impressive irony with just the right amount of blatant stupidity. Well done.

  • apr2563

    http://tv.gawker.com/5644537/john-mccain-freaks-out-at-reporters-over-dadt-questions
    .
    Senator McCain doing his “get off my lawn” shtick with reporters after the DADT vote. He is denying what has alread been proven true, that the mililtary has taken active steps to out homosexuals by reading their e-mails, etc. All McCain does is yell that it isn’t policy and will not listen.

  • apr2563

    It amazes me that Pryor Sr. was not as big an a$$hole as his son. And, Bayh Sr. was quite courageous on some issues. How did they ever spawn such doooooches.

  • apr2563

    sacredh: Noooooooooo!!

  • herby002

    mjk -

    Thanks for reminding us. I would amend your post in a small way:

    Where you say “gay” Americans, I say we could substitute “Muslim” or “Negro” or “black” or “Jewish” or “foreign-born” or “Mexican-” or “etc”

  • apr2563
  • chohkmah

    LAST I checked, DRUMMING people OUT of THE military BASED solely ON their SEXUAL orientation WASN’T actively CONTRIBUTING to OUR troop STRENGTH.
    .

    in FACT, in A time OF war, WOULDN’T we WANT every SINGLE able-BODIED man AND woman TO serve TO the BEST of THEIR ability?
    .
    SEE? i CAN play THE capital WORD game TOO! doesn’t IT make MY point MORE convincing!?

  • chohkmah

    bah, thought i was responding to 9.

    Ignore this.

  • chohkmah

    LAST I checked, DRUMMING people OUT of THE military BASED solely ON their SEXUAL orientation WASN’T actively CONTRIBUTING to OUR troop STRENGTH.
    .
    in FACT, in A time OF war, WOULDN’T we WANT every SINGLE able-BODIED man AND woman TO serve TO the BEST of THEIR ability?
    .
    SEE? i CAN play THE capital WORD game TOO! doesn’t IT make MY point MORE convincing!?

  • kathy

    Mark: Oh I see, it was supposed to be a cute headline, and I missed that. d’oh

  • artraveler

    On the Arkansasblog last night, she lost some of the few liberal backers she had left. They won’t vote for Boozman since he is a zero who is a “good German”, just follows orders but the Green Party may get a lot more votes than usual. Some feelings here that once daddy goes to his great reward, Markie Markie will become the Republican he acts like.

  • mailman839

    Newfreedom -
    .
    Back up at 1.21, afguy asked when did you serve, and in what branch. I read through all the comments looking for your answer, but no luck.
    .
    At 20.2, you jumped all over apr2563, implying that he/she shouldn’t comment because he/she didn’t serve.
    .
    I’d like to inquire myself, in what branch of the service did you serve, and when?
    .
    I ask this, not because of any political point of view I may or may not have, but because nothing peeves me more than some joker who claims to know what the military wants or needs or should/should not do, but hasn’t served a day himself.

    I retired from the USAF after 23 years of service, half of which was overseas including Desert Shield/Desert Storm. Have you, indeed, served in any capacity in the US Armed Forces? If yes, please anwer the question posed by afguy and I, and please accept my apologies for any unfair things I may have thought about your character. If not, then may I please invite you to STFU about things you obviously have no knowledge of?

  • nedlum

    Of course, there wasn’t a real, stand-there-and-talk fillabuster. Pity. I would have liked to see (say) Mitch McConnel on CSPAN, explaining that, while he loves our country, and our military, and wants them both to succeed, he doesn’t love either as much as he hates homosexuals.

  • chohkmah

    I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for a reply.
    .
    Newfreedomblog like to post only when he thinks he has the upper hand, avoiding any responsibility, accountability, or credibility.
    .
    Just like a good troll should.

  • mailman839

    Not exactly holding my breath – - I’ve been following this place for almost a year now, and I’ve noticed his propensity to suddenly disappear anytime he’s asked a simple, direct question. However, since this is my first question to him (indeed, it was my first ever post here), I figured he deserved a chance to respond.

  • http://gaeliclass1.wordpress.com gaeliclass1

    you are the man sacred, many people listen to your words. Thanks for sharing your sound logic.

  • afguy

    mailman,
    .
    Rusty and I played this game some time back. Never got a straight answer then or now. Recall he mumbled something about “Vietnam-era” and dropped it. After all of the hedging, I deduced he never ACTUALLY served. I suspect “Vietnam-era” refers to when he was eligible to serve but, like “Dead-eye Dick”, he had “other commitments” and got some sort of deferment.
    .
    If you read his reply VERY carefully, you’ll notice he NEVER actually said HE served, just that his family did way back to grandpappy.

  • mailman839

    Afguy -

    I couldn’t recall your previous discussion with him on this subject – - it was either before my time or I just flat out missed it. I’ve been tempted to call him out on not answering before, but the regulars here usually do a pretty decent job at that. This time though, he caught me on a bad day and waived a big pet peeve in my face.
    .
    I’m presuming from the handle that your USAF – - active or retired?

  • afguy

    mailman,
    .
    Retired but still working since 1988. Three teenage boys just in college or still in HS (you know how us retirees are supposed to enjoy our “golden years”).

  • afguy

    What branch of service are/were you?

  • mailman839

    USAF, retired in 2002 as an E7.

  • erexx

    Don’t ask dont tell protects gays in the military by preventing them from being investigated and removed from service for being gay.

    Without the law its still illegal to be gay and in the military.

    So make it legal before removing the dont ask dont tell law or there will be a lot more gays forcefully kicked out of the service.

    The whole movement to remove it is ignorant of UCMJ.

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