Oorah! The commandant's prose, and Con-way…

General James Conway, the Marine commandant, told reporters at the Pentagon Tuesday that his 202,000 Marines are “pretty macho” compared to the 1.2 million Americans in the other services. He might just as well have been speaking about himself and his willingness to say what he thinks. After all, the Marines are the smallest — and like to think of themselves as the most exclusive — of the nation’s military services. So they, and their leaders, exhibit a certain swagger that seems to free up their mouths a little more than those belonging to the Air Force, Army and Navy.

That was on display as Conway tried to explain why Marines seem less eager than members of the other services to abandon the “don’t ask, don’t tell” rule that bars openly gay men and women from serving in the military. “We recruit a certain type of young American, pretty macho guy or gal, that is willing to go fight and perhaps die for their country,” the four-star said. “That’s about the only difference that I see between the other services.” Upending the ban, he said in a nice bit of jarhead lingo, is “pretty uniformly not endorsed as the ideal way ahead.”

If opposing President Obama’s pledge to lift the ban weren’t enough, Conway also said the commander-in-chief’s push to begin pulling U.S. troops out of Afghanistan by next July is “probably giving our enemy sustenance.” The dictionary defines “sustenance” as a “means of sustaining life; nourishment,” which some might think trods too closely to the Constitution’s ban on giving the enemy “aid and comfort.” But that’s typical Marine talk: Conway is channeling his leathernecks when talking of DADT, and echoing the doubt many, if not most, U.S. military officers share about setting a date for beginning the U.S. drawdown from Afghanistan. If such outspokenness is bad news for the White House, the good news is that Conway wraps up his 40 years in uniform this fall.

Related Topics: afghanistan, Conway, marines, National Security
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  • michaelfury
  • newfreedomblog

    America’s Army…………..Unleashed
    .

  • newfreedomblog

  • nflfoghorn

    Only ‘straight’ people have the ‘guts’ to fight or die for their country? Really???
    .
    And if, hypothetically, after saving his/her butt from enemy fire, would the rescued soldier then ask the rescuer “are you gay?”
    .
    Maybe BO can move up this guy’s retirement date.

  • kevin

    Oh, a costume party where conservatives get to pretend to be soldiers. That’s adorable.
    .
    No wonder you all loved Dubya so much. He always wanted to play dress-up too. “Lookitme, mommy! I’m a big boy now!”

  • nflfoghorn

    Flight suit. “Mission Accomplished.” Party time!

  • allthingsinaname

    Having served in the Marine Corps ( 67-71 ) I can assure you it was not the TEA Party. It never ceases to amaze me how the GOP can take the sacrifices made by others and twist it to represent their views.
    If you want to use the Marine Corps to promote your views, then enlist in it.

  • allthingsinaname

    The reality is that there has always been gays serving in the Marine Corps and, they are still called Marines. One doesn’t quibble with who he shares a fox hole with, the General knows that; his view is a personal bias.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    I have news for Conway. Most, but not all, so-called “macho” girls happen to be lesbians.

  • allthingsinaname

    I bet that would be news to a lot of Women Marines

  • m0mentom0ri

    Off topic, but whenever Gen Conway’s name comes up, I flashback to this quote from him Re: WMD’s in Iraq from ’03:
    .
    “It was a surprise to me then, it remains a surprise to me now, that we have not uncovered weapons…It’s not for lack of trying. We’ve been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they’re simply not there….What the regime was intending to do in terms of its use of the weapons, we thought we understood—or we certainly had our best guess, our most dangerous, our most likely courses of action that the intelligence folks were giving us. We were simply wrong. But whether or not we’re wrong at the national level, I think, still very much remains to be seen.”
    .
    He was “simply wrong” then, as he is now.

  • gadsbys

    40 years in the USMC. The times have changed and he is still the Dino Jarhead he was 40 years ago.

    OOORah

  • allthingsinaname

    I do not believe that the Marine Corps had it’s own Intelligence service that he could draw on. The choice to go to war was not his, but the United States Government. His job was to prosecute the war, which he did and, is one of the few who said they were wrong.
    .
    He wasn’t wrong then, he was right, he did hid job.
    .
    He is wrong now, however

  • groenhagen2

    Times may change, but we Marines keep our traditions. That is why men and women recruits still train separately and why most of us adamantly oppose gays serving openly.

    I’m struck at just how different the Commandant is from the man-child currently sitting in the White House. It’s a shame we don’t have a real man like Conway as a commander in chief.

  • bobcn1

    “We recruit a certain type of young American”

    If the people they are recruiting can’t follow orders when their commander repeals DADT, then they should be recruiting different people. If this general has a problem with that then he should look for a job in the private sector.

  • newfreedomblog

    I have, so go blow it up where the sun doesn’t shine, pal.

  • m0mentom0ri

    Point taken, allthings.

  • shepherdwong

    I do not believe that the Marine Corps had it’s own Intelligence service that he could draw on…
    .
    He wasn’t wrong then, he was right, he did hid job.

    .
    Not sure he needed his own intelligence service to do a better job with this (considering he had “been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad”):

    The U.S. military’s faulty war plans and insufficient troops in Iraq left thousands and possibly millions of tons of conventional munitions unsecured or in the hands of insurgent groups after the 2003 invasion — allowing widespread looting of weapons and explosives used to make roadside bombs that cause the bulk of U.S. casualties, according to a government report released yesterday.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/22/AR2007032202017.html

  • shepherdwong

    Times may change, but we Marines keep our traditions.
    .
    In my experience, one of those traditions is a rabid and childish hatred of Democrats, which rises nearly to the level of treason when one happens to be Commander-in-Chief. Now at least I understand a bit better where your traitorous insanity comes from.

  • 3xfire3

    And the Democrats try to say this is a violent angry mob.
    .
    They are Patriotic American Citizen at their Best. Expressing their rights as Americans.
    .
    That Democrats try to demonize these peaceful citizens only shows how low some people on the Left Wing of our political system have taken their hatred of their fellow American citizens.
    .
    Claiming The Tea Party is Violent is a Lie. With approx 50,000,000 people claiming to be affiliated with the Tea Party Movement, if it was violent, we would have hundreds maybe thousands of Tea Party people convicted of violent crimes.
    .
    I goggled and found not one conviction of a TP person for an actual act of violence. NOT ONE. I found one Blogger convicted of threatening violence on his blog but he had not actually done any act of violence.
    .
    To call these American citizens violent is a major lie being told by the Left.
    “The End Justifies The Means”. The Left believes it’s OK to Lie if it furthers their political cause.

  • groenhagen2

    shepherdwong:

    Good Lord, you’re an idiot.

  • groenhagen2

    The type of young American the Marines recruit has kept this nation free for over 200 years. We can’t say the same about the man-child Obama. Let’s keep the Marines we have and get rid of the idiot currently occupying the White House.

  • rose83

    And some people still think that sexism and homophobia are secondary problems that are distinct from important issues like foreign policy and military strategy.

    Nothing is immune from the effects of gender ideology.

  • apr2563

    Macho: Sexy, verile man
    .
    Marines recruit “pretty macho guys or gals”.
    .
    Does that mean the “gals” are transgender?

  • 3xfire3

    allthings,
    .
    “Having served in the Marine Corps ( 67-71 ) I can assure you it was not the TEA Party.”
    .
    As a Veteran [57-61] I can assure you that the vast majority of Marines would be happy to identify with the Tea Party Movement. Probably over 90%. Probably 0 would identify with Liberals.

  • coasty63

    Actually, to quibble about a minor detail, the Coast Guard is the smallest service, NOT the Marine Corps.

    It helps to actually check your facts.

    And before somebody jumps in with yet another mistaken fact, the Coast Guard is both a law enforcement agency (sea-going version of the FBI) and a military service, even though it is not a part of the DOD. It used to be under the Department of the Treasury, then the Department of Transportation, and since 2001 under the Department of Homeland Security. The USCG is under the DOD/Navy, much like the Marine Corps, only during a time of declared war, or by Presidential directive for a specified and limited amount of time. Unless, of course, the Navy asks for our help, which happens more often than you’d think, in which case the USCG is happy to oblige. Like the Marine Corps, we are specialists and damn good at what we do.

    Other than that, it’s obvious the General hasn’t spent much time around the U.S. Coast Guard if that’s what he has to say about his troops, although I wouldn’t expect him to say anything else. LOL

  • 3xfire3

    Thank God for men and women like General Conway who aren’t caught up in all the political correct garbage that Liberals love so dearly.
    .
    If wars must be fought, and America is to stay free and help other freedom loving countries to stay free, we need Real Men and Women like General Conway to lead our fighting men and women.
    .
    If we had to depend on Liberal Leaders to lead our country during war, we would surrender before the first shot was fired.
    .
    During the Cold War the Liberal Battle Cry was
    .
    “Better Red Then Died”.
    .
    Had we listen to Liberals we would have surrendered to the Soviet Union and the entire world would now be under the Communist control of the USSR.
    .
    For you Liberals who are too young to know what that means it is the “Union of Soviet Socialist Republics”. You may want to goggle that and find out how men and women like General Conway and Ronald Reagan saved our country and you and your families from this horror.

  • shepherdwong

    Let’s keep the Marines we have and get rid of the idiot currently occupying the White House.
    .
    See 8.2

  • sacredh

    Just 10 more weeks and then either one or possibly both of us takes a month’s vacation.

  • bobcn1

    Do you really believe this garbage?

  • 3xfire3

    boben1,
    .
    I believe it because it’s true.
    .
    Do you have any proof that it’s not true?
    .
    Actual provable Facts? Not Opinions or Perceptions or hopes or garbage from some left wing source.

  • 3xfire3

    sacredh,
    .
    Was that the house or both the house and senate?

  • Ivy_B

    I feel so sorry for all these men that are so insecure in their masculinity that they have to hate gays. Just as so many men who beat their wives are also insecure in their masculinity, they must just be frightened. The men I know who are totally secure in who they are have no problem with gays.

  • shepherdwong

    Actual provable Facts?
    .
    It is an actual, provable fact that you are an ignorant, misinformed dope who has no idea what he’s talking about most of time. The trouble is, you’re too ignorant and misinformed to be able recognize actual provable facts.

  • sacredh

    Both the house and senate. Even if I win, I’m taking a break though. We’d like to get all of our Christmas shopping done before Thanksgiving so a break from here will free up a good bit of time. I think it was the middle of May when we bet. I start a five day weekend in the morning and I’ll go back and check the details.

  • Ivy_B
  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    What was the bet, again?

  • westender3

    Let me fix that for you,

    As a Veteran [57-61] I can assure you that the vast majority of Marines would be happy to identify with the Tea Party Movement in 1957. Probably over 90% in 1957. Probably 0 would identify with Liberals in 1957.

  • douginsandiego

    “the good news is that Conway wraps up his 40 years in uniform this fall.”

    Why is that good news??? Here is a military officer who puts the welfare of the service above his career needs and speaks the truth. You actually think officers in other branches – let alone those in the Marines – do not agree? You actually believe that their silence connotes agreement?

    No doubt that’s what you WANT to think, but that does not make it so. A fighting unit depends on selflessness and sacrifice for others. “Gay” destroys that. You think officer do not KNOW this? They know but are simply too cowardly to speak up, as they know the gay-in-chief will zap them if they do.

    What we NEED are more like Conway, not less. The fact he will be retiring is our countries LOSS, not gain. The service exists NOT to play a role in some social experiment, but to defend the country. L:eave the military alone!

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    You’re honestly associating those who take issue with homosexuality with wife-beaters? You don’t think that’s a tad bit disingenuous, perhaps a wee bit drenched in undermining hyperbole?
    .
    The men I know who are totally secure in who they are have no problem with gays.
    .
    Thanks for sharing. As go Ivy’s friends, so goes the world, eh?

  • douginsandiego

    Your idiotic statement is akin to threatening “you must have latent homosexual tendencies and THAT is why you are so against us!” It’s a childish and moronic statement.

    True – when we were in grade school, calling someone a f-g was the worst insult; NO ONE wanted to be labeled that way. But, geeze – guess what? Though you seem unaware, we grew up and that silliness has ZERO potency. Get a grip – people simply DO NOT LIKE YOUR CHOSEN LIFESTYLE. It’s not that they are afraid of you, or envy you, or secretly wish to be like you. It’s simple dislike.

    The LEVEL of dislike is certainly much higher than it was 5 years ago, what with the obnoxious and offensive behavior we all are forced to witness from you. That level of animosity is of your own doing. Man up, accept responsibility for the clear consequences of your decisions and your behavior.

  • sacredh

    I don’t understand it either. I’m a civilian employee for a military branch of the government. We get a basic physical every year but we used to get a thorough physical including dropping trou and coughing. I wore crotchless fishnet women’s panties one year just as a joke for our physical. When I dropped my pants I thought the doctor was going to have a stroke (no pun intended). I moaned when he checked me and asked him if he was married. He couldn’t get me out of there fast enough. My boss tried to get mad when I got back but he failed miserably.

  • douginsandiego

    THAT’S RIGHT!

    If the CIC tells you to jump off a cliff, by God, JUMP!

    If the CIC intentionally directs the destruction of the country, right before our eyes, then BY GOD our dutty is to follow orders, shut up, help him trash the country.

    Cause – the IMPORTANT thing is that OBungler’s directives be adhered to …. NOT that the country be preserved. Narcissist!

  • bobcn1

    “Do you have any proof that it’s not true?”
    .
    You are the one making assertions. That makes you responsible for backing them up. Got links?
    .
    I suggest you start with attempting to prove your assertion that ‘During the Cold War the Liberal Battle Cry was “Better Red Then Died”’. Cite examples that back up your claim (and I don’t mean by citing slander coming from Limbaugh or Beck or some other right wing gas bag).

  • fractal86

    “A fighting unit depends on selflessness and sacrifice for others. “Gay” destroys that. You think officer do not KNOW this? They know but are simply too cowardly to speak up, as they know the gay-in-chief will zap them if they do.”
    .
    How many things are wrong with this sentence?
    - Gay people are selfish? News to me.
    - All officers in the armed forces are cowards? News to me.
    - Obama’s gay? Gay-in-chief? He commands gay people?

  • sacredh

    Exiled, 3xfire3 and I have a friendly bet about the outcome of the November races. If the republicans win the house and senate, I leave for a month. If not, he doesn’t post for a month. I don’t believe there’s any malice in the bet on either end.

  • fractal86

    “If wars must be fought, and America is to stay free and help other freedom loving countries to stay free, we need Real Men and Women like General Conway to lead our fighting men and women.”
    .
    Unless they’re openly gay. We’re not *that* free.
    [/snark]

  • shepherdwong

    …we grew up and that silliness has ZERO potency. Get a grip – people simply DO NOT LIKE YOUR CHOSEN LIFESTYLE. It’s not that they are afraid of you, or envy you, or secretly wish to be like you. It’s simple dislike.
    .
    Funny, I just ignore the things I simply dislike but have zero potency. And even the things that make me outraged seldom warrant the caps lock treatment.
    .
    Looks like you bagged one (so to speak), Ivy_B.

  • 3xfire3

    Sacredh,
    .
    Your recollection is accurate. I was just kidding you. I think the House is safe for me with a confidence factor of about 85-90%. The Senate will require a good alignment of the stars. Confidence factor 50%.
    .
    You should do your Christmas shopping like I do. I let my wife do it. Since we’re both retired that works out quite well. She loves to shop and I would rather have a root canal then go shopping. It’s a good thing that most ladies like to shop. If it was up to us guys to do the shopping the economy would never recover.
    .
    Now I’m going to catch hell from Apr for my comments about women.

  • douginsandiego

    ShepWrong: “Funny, I just ignore the things I simply dislike but have zero potency. And even the things that make me outraged seldom warrant the caps lock treatment.”
    —————-

    Yep. The vast majority of us did that for decades. Now – you apparently can speak for everyone else; I can’t of some odd reason. But, as for myself, until 3 or 4 years ago I could not have cared less if anyone elected to be gay providing they kept their hands off children. Then the gay gestapo started big time, and ignoring became a non-option.

    Live with it. The vast majority of us NOW are unwilling to simply turn a blind eye to your antisocial antics. You seem to need to be told, “NO!”. I’m more than willing to stand up to your bullying and explain to you which is day and which is night, and not sit quietly as you propagandize an attempted reversal of the two.

    You “bagged one”, for sure. In fact – the gestapo behavior has bagged a vast number and, unless a screeching halt is called to the war you seem bent on, the mother of all backlashes will soon be upon us.

    Your choice.

  • 3xfire3

    Ivy_B,
    .
    You are a real nutcake.

  • douginsandiego

    Fracta: “How many things are wrong with this sentence?
    - Gay people are selfish? News to me.
    - All officers in the armed forces are cowards? News to me.
    - Obama’s gay? Gay-in-chief? He commands gay people?

    1. Selfish. While true, you seem confused with English words. Selfish and self absorbed are not the same. A fighting unit depends on people willing to die for another in thier unit. This is ‘selflessness’. Gays (not all, but the majority of activists) are He!! bent on satisfying their own needs, wants and desires, “weather you like it or not”. Sorry – this is self absorbed behavior.

    2. “You think officers do not …”. If you will but study these words you will find that the word “all” is not among them.

    3. Gay-in-chief: Please keep abreast of the news. Just as our beloved Vaughn Walker is gay, so are others. Still, an objective response to you would be that, just as it is not necessary to be a ‘commander’ to be Commander-In-chief (note our current CIC), it is not necessary to be gay to be … However, in the present case we see that our GIC is, in fact, enamored with romantic same gendered attractions.

    http://www.newsfollowup.com/obama_gay_blackmail_blagojevich_fitzgerald.htm#May_

  • 3xfire3

    ShepherdWrong & bobcn1,
    .
    Apparently neither of you were around during the early years of the Cold War. If you were you would know about the Liberal “Better Red Then Died” statement. I know the history books you have studied in school are Liberal distortions of actual history but the points I made are things I witnessed in my 71 years of life. Life experiences give a person knowledge that you don’t get from political biased historians.

  • 3xfire3

    fractal,
    .
    “Unless they’re openly gay. We’re not *that* free.
    [/snark]”
    .
    The opinion not fact of maybe 20% of American citizens.
    .
    November can not come soon enough.

  • sacredh

    3xfire3, I have to go with my wife. Her back is in really bad shape and I have to carry the stuff. She shops for her side of the family and her friends and I shop for mine. We usually spend a couple of thousand so there’s a lot of stuff that has to be ferried back to the car. We go to an outlet place in Grove City (about 90 miles away) and spend the entire day there. She can’t stay on her feet without muscle relaxers and pain killers so driving is out of the question for her. Plus, when she gets trashed she makes some interesting purchases. I have a blast.

  • fractal86

    Doug:
    .
    1. I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that a gay person wouldn’t be willing to die for another–aren’t there already gay people in the military doing just that? Are you advocating throwing out all gay people completely?
    2. “”Gay” destroys that. You think officer do not KNOW this? They know but are simply too cowardly to speak up” — I apologize. Not “all” officers are cowards, only those who think gays are bad for the military. Your words, not mine.
    3. Oh ok, you just made up a term that doesn’t really mean anything and applied it to someone you don’t like. Cute.

  • gloriousglo2

    My father, father in law, and several uncles served in WW2, lived to tell, and categorically think that middle aged white men who dress up like people from the late 18th century in powdered wigs and white tights are pansies, and probably need to just come out of the closet. Yeah, and that Marine Corp general needs to resign if he can’t get into the 21st century.

  • sacredh

    Please don’t beat around the bush. Say what you really think.

  • douginsandiego

    Fracta: while I love some spirited repartee, it falls flat when you intentionally or negligently misquote or mischaracterize what I say. Try harder, please.

    I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that a gay person wouldn’t be willing to die for another–aren’t there already gay people in the military doing just that?

    Of course. But, you seem to not be willing to recognize that CURRENTLY gays are required to not flaunt their sexual proclivities. Should that change – such that gays develop open infatuations with another in their unit – the primary allegiance will naturally shift to protecting that other individual rather than the Unit. THAT destroys the unit – what, in shorthand, is called a breakdown in cohesion.

    “I apologize. Not “all” officers are cowards, only those who think gays are bad for the military. Your words, not mine.

    Perfect example. If you study real hard you will see those are NOT my words; not even the gist of what I said. Those who think gays are bad for the military AND ARE UNWILLING / AFRAID TO SAY SO are indeed cowards. Conway thinks gays are bad for the military AND is willing to say so, even if the GIC smacks him down for doing so. CONWAY is NOT a coward.

    “Oh ok, you just made up a term that doesn’t really mean anything and applied it to someone you don’t like. Cute.”

    Ditto to number 2. Do try to be more accurate. Now, perhaps you were unwilling to click on the link – understandable for various reasons. In short: Obama – and Rahm Emanuel, for that matter – apparently are members of the (gay) “Man’s Country” club in Chicago; Obama allegedly preferring to be serviced by elderly Caucasian men kneeling before His Majesty. Thus – NOT made up, NOT without meaning, but – yes – applied to someone whose destructive policies I despise. Oh – and thanks … I AM cute.

  • bobcn1

    So you want us to believe that ‘the Liberal Battle Cry was “Better Red Then Died”. You just can’t prove it. We’re supposed to take your word for it because apparently no one ever wrote down this important bit of history. You can’t find any proof of the ‘Liberal Battle Cry’ because all of the history books were written by liberals and they all apparently successfully conspired to hide their ‘Battle Cry’. Was it a secret ‘Battle Cry’?
    .
    And, of course, after we accept your history of the ‘Liberal Battle Cry’ we’ll be eager to believe your assertion that ‘Ronald Reagan saved our country and you and your families from this horror’ of the USSR. We should believe you because you’re 71.
    .
    FWIW — I’m 12 years younger than you are. I never heard of your so called ‘Liberal Battle Cry’ (no doubt because you just now made it up). I also experienced the cold war, served in S.E.A., and voted for Reagan the first time (because he promised to balance the budget) and against him the second time (because he was wrecking the budget). Anyone who believes that Reagan saved us from the USSR probably also believes in the tooth fairy. The USSR was already crumbling before Reagan was elected. The challenge from the Polish labor union Solidarity, the continued failure of Soviet communism as an economic system, and the rise to power of Gorbachev were what finished the USSR off. Reagan was there when it happened, but he didn’t cause it. He was in office when the sun rose in the east also, and he didn’t cause that either.

  • sacredh

    “Should that change – such that gays develop open infatuations with another in their unit – the primary allegiance will naturally shift to protecting that other individual rather than the Unit. THAT destroys the unit – what, in shorthand, is called a breakdown in cohesion.”
    .
    This may be one of the most bizarre and silly attempts at reasoning I have ever heard. Men and women, gay or straight, join the military to serve and protect us and our country. It’s not a mixer where they go for easy pickings. The barracks aren’t a meat locker with the goods on parade. It’s where they sleep.
    .
    It’s OK not to like gays for whatever reason. It’s OK not to like members of the opposite political party because their views don’t coincide with our own. It’s OK not to like people with different religious views. It’s not right, but we all have shortcomings. People often tend to dislike others who are “different”. It’s not OK to present a highly questionable opinion and expect people to be predjudiced just because you are. The people who try to impose their own beliefs are the threats to cohesion.
    .
    Is there a problem with people who are openly heterosexual? Are they threats? People are who they are and should be respected for their contributions. If a service man that hits on a service woman, should he be declared a threat to cohesion and forced out of the military? Whatever happened to “No thanks, I’m straight” or “I’m not interested”? I don’t give a rat’s ass about whether a person serving their country and protecting me is straight or gay. I’m just thankful they are doing it and putting their life on the line for all of us.

  • fractal86

    Whoah ok, I actually clicked on that link, and if I understand the article correctly, Wayne Madsen claims that Obama has slept with 6 named men, 4 of whom are well-known politicians–and there is some reason that this HASN’T blown up in every newspaper everywhere? Oh hey, maybe that’s because most journalists believe WM’s a conspiracy theorist who has literally no evidence to back up his claim on this. He also believes Obama is a pawn of the CIA…

  • 11charlie

    I have a feeling that when DADT is repealed, the next day in the military will look like the day after Prop 8 was struck down. In other words, no different than the day before. Soldiers will get up and carry on with their duties.
    .
    Gays ARE serving in the military, and are doing so alongside straights. They probably have no more inclination to hit on straights than their civilian counterparts do. I believe that when you’re attracted to someone of the same sex, you seek out another person who also is attracted to the same sex.
    .
    “We recruit a certain type of young American, pretty macho guy…”
    .
    You mean, like this?

  • nerdyengineer

    groenhagen2 said:
    .
    “That is why men and women recruits still train separately and why most of us adamantly oppose gays serving openly.”
    .
    You’re wrong on a number of counts there, I think. When I went thru BMT in 1995, we went thru co-ed training. Females in our classes, doing PT next to us, marching with us, training with us in every capacity. The only segregation was when we bunked.
    .
    I also think you are incorrect in your stated assertion that “most of us” adamantly oppose gays serving openly. Even among my most rabid right-wing friends still serving, I only know a few who don’t regard DADT as idiotic. Times have changed, and todays soldiers mostly (the ones I know, who still serve today) just don’t care about the sexual orientation of the men or women covering their flanks or taking fire with them in the field. Today’s professional soldiers are just that – professionals. And you insult them every time you & your bigoted ilk imply straight soldiers cannot control themselves from hazing gay soldiers, or that gay soldiers cannot stop themselves from hitting on straight soldiers.

  • abdullah69

    “Expressing their rights as Americans.” Unless of course they want to build a mosque.

  • allthingsinaname

    Let me tell you my experience in the Marine Corp. I had been in for about 18 months, been through a full year of school, and found myself in serious trouble with the CO for reasons I did not understand. I went to him directly as it appeared to me that I was being singled out. After some discussion I discovered that MY mother had apparently written a letter to Sen Humphrey of MN saying she had three sons already served in Vietnam and she did want a fourth to do so.. The Marine Corp was not allowed to send me. After signing numerous statements and papers I was shipped out. On my return from Vietnam I decided that this war needed to end, and started marching against it. I, however had to deal with both the left and, the right, the majority of both who evaded the draft and never served. I was a Baby Killer to the left and, a Traitor to the right. It is amazing that after 40 years, it is still that way.
    .
    Much of what I have read on this thread reminds me of that very unpleasant time. My service being hijacked for their political gain. Even those of you who have served, must acknowledge my experience and respect my decision about that war or any other as I do yours.
    .
    I do not tolerate any name calling of any Vet for any decision they take in respect to any military action. The General is no different. You have no right to take the service of another individual for your own political gain.
    .
    Marines, Saliors, Airmen and Soldiers come, Christian Jew, Athiest, Muslim, Agnostic, etc. They come Black, White, Brown, Yellow, Etc, they come Liberal, Conservative, Moderatie, etc. They come Straight and Gay, Male and Femal.

  • douginsandiego

    “there is some reason that this HASN’T blown up in every newspaper everywhere? Oh hey, maybe that’s because most journalists believe WM’s a conspiracy theorist who has literally no evidence to back up his claim on this. He also believes Obama is a pawn of the CIA…

    Very cute.

    You know, Fractal, there is what seem like an almost universal characteristic among those in the far left: ‘facts can be avoided by denigrating the messenger’. You do it with Palin, Rush, Beck, radio, and now this guy. You do it simply and reflexively, without even the slightest thought of checking into the claims of the guy. You simply disparage the guy, and in so doing think you have neutered the information.

    Sorry. It is not that easy. Perhaps this is not correct info – I don’t know, and CERTAINLY YOU don’t know. But – until you can come up with reasonable, convincing information that shows the DATA is false, not simply that you do not like the guy, you have no standing (to quote Vaughn Walker). Of course, this being America you are free to hold your hands over your ears and sing loudly all you want, and if that drones out the voices and gives you solace, well, goody for you.

    You first alleged I was making things up. I provided information, showing your claim was bogus. You then alleged the information was false because you do not like the guy. Sorry – either do better of sit down. It’s really that simple.

  • douginsandiego

    Vietnam was a pretty awful time. Maybe you came back through San Francisco and were warned to not retaliate or react in any way when spit upon as you walked through the airport … and then were spit upon as you walked through the airport. If you were in a combat position, maybe you too suffer from PTSD. Maybe you still wake up at times covered in sweat with horrible memories, some real and some made up by your mind. Maybe you are left with such loathing not only for THAT war, but for war in general, that a discussion of this topic gets all mixed up with what happened in the real world 40 years later.

    NO matter what anyone says, there isn’t anything anyone can do or say that will change any of that. I hope you were not exposed to Agent Orange.

    But others of us might be just as scared up but NOT left with hatred for the war and the services. You are right – all kinds of people served, some faced with worse conditions than others (Ranger) but everyone affected. But times were different then.

    I still love the corps. I don’t want to see politicians do their social experiment in it and destroy what has always been the world’s best fighting force. And that’s exactly where i see this going.

    Don’t want to argue with you, brother, but I guess we do not agree and we don’t agree pretty strongly.

    Sorry if your Mom was so afraid of losing you she inadvertently got you in trouble with your CO (if i read you right). But she loves (ed) you, and you survived. At this point, that’s all that matters about that.

  • douginsandiego

    Yeah, Sure.

    The day after gay marriage was embraced in the Scandinavian countries not much changed either.

    Fast forward 15 years.

    YOU may think the societies in Norway, Denmark and Sweden are what we here in the US should hope to someday be, but NOT ME!!!

    Social lunacy destroys societies – but not in one day. The biggest problem is that each step of the walk becomes increasingly more difficult to reverse. I’ll bet that is true in your private life as well.

    The time to say “NO, Dammit!” is not 15 years down the road, when it is patently clear we made a HUGE mistake and would LOVE to take it all back …. but can’t. The time is now. Sorry: “NO!”

  • apr2563

    The Coast Guard has every day heroes. I lived in a small town in costal Wa State. There was commercial, charter, and recreational boats moored there. The Coast Guard went on many dangerous rescue missions. They aren’t thanked enough.

  • apr2563

    There was a saying “better read than dead” (not died) used by a few radicals. I was liberal then and now and never used the term. Some Conservatives told people to love the country or leave it. My in-laws were very Conservative and I never heard them say that.
    .
    Wouldn’t it be nice if our memories didn’t often exagerate the truth.

  • apr2563

    Correction: Make that “better red than dead”.

  • apr2563

    3x: You won’t catch h*ll from me. Most women love shopping. I hated shopping with my husband because he knew what he wanted, got it and we were done. That’s not quality shopping.

  • apr2563

    Ivy: See how your statement has set off the fears and denials of certain males on this site. So defensive!

  • 11charlie

    Okay, what did legalizing gay marriage in those countries cause, that was detrimental?
    .
    More importantly, how will it impact American society in a negative way?

  • 3xfire3

    westender,
    .
    In your dreams. You don’t know the Marines.

  • 3xfire3

    shepherdWrong,
    .
    You have certainly chosen the proper blog name in that you are wrong 99% of the time.
    .
    Your song, “It’s a Small World”.

  • 3xfire3

    shepherdWrong,
    .
    “In my experience, one of those traditions is a rabid and childish hatred of Democrats, which rises nearly to the level of treason when one happens to be Commander-in-Chief.”
    .
    You have certainly chosen the proper blog name in that you are wrong 99% of the time.
    .
    Your song, “It’s a Small World”.

  • 3xfire3

    apr,
    .
    “I hated shopping with my husband because he knew what he wanted, got it and we were done. That’s not quality shopping.”
    .
    Yes but it makes such logical sense.
    .
    My wife and my 18 year old granddaughter were going shopping and my granddaughter asked if I wanted to go too. I told her that when boy babies were born the Doctor made a sign of the cross over them and said “you don’t like to shop”. Her answer was “grandma you know what grandpa just said” and my wife said don’t pay any attention to him.
    .
    It’s very easy to understand men. We operate on two principles.
    .
    Activities must meet one of two criteria’s or we don’t want to do them.
    .
    1. They must either be something we enjoy.
    .
    2. Or it must make logical sense.
    .
    If it doesn’t meet one of these criteria’s, we are an old stick in the mud.

  • sacredh

    The GOP theme song?

    To the tune of “The Old Gray Mare”:

    The new GOP she ain’t what she used to be, ain’t what she used to be, ain’t what she used to be…

  • sacredh

    There are a couple of things that annoy me about gays. As a whole, they’re better groomed and dress better than me. I have some t-shirts that are as comfortable as hell but have seen much better days. I have to hide them after I wash them or else my wife will throw them away.

  • 3xfire3

    sacredh,
    .
    “The GOP theme song?

    To the tune of “The Old Gray Mare”:

    The new GOP she ain’t what she used to be, ain’t what she used to be, ain’t what she used to be…”
    .
    Sacredh your post doesn’t make any sense.
    .
    The old Gray Mare is a horse which is related to a donkey which is the mascot of the Democratic Party.
    .
    You should always make sure you have your facts right in these very important discussion.
    .
    You know how smart we conservatives are and we will almost always call you on these inaccurate statements.

  • allthingsinaname

    Lets be honest 3xfire3, there wasn’t a TEA Party back then. The Marine Corps is not the TEA Party, never has been, never will be. The Day the Military becomes a political party is the day all Americans will lose their freedom.
    .
    We can debate what former and current members affiliations might or might not be, but for you to say that you speak for 90% of any group is absurd.

  • sacredh

    “You know how smart we conservatives are”
    .
    Good Lord 3xfire3! Why would you open up that can of worms? Do you have any idea about the posts I’m holding back?
    .
    A donkey and a horse are related, but democrats and republicans (I’m being generous) are both humans of the SAME species and we’re nothing alike other than in physical appearance.

  • bobcn1

    ‘Better dead than red’ was a very common anti-communist phrase during the cold war.
    .
    The claim that there was a ‘Liberal Battle Cry’ of ‘Better Red Then Died (or Dead)’ is nothing but slander. There was no such thing. Sadly, too many on the right prefer to demonize their political opponents rather than deal with them honestly.

  • bobcn1

    “The Day the Military becomes a political party is the day all Americans will lose their freedom.”
    .
    This is the most important comment in the entire thread.

  • bobcn1

    Rats! My comment above was in response to allthingsinaname’s excellent comment at 3.6.

  • douginsandiego

    Wow. How fascinating can a Comment get!!!!!

    Simply mind boggling. I guess now there is no need for anyone to ever say anything again, since you have pretty much summed up all of the intricacies of life. Pithy. Etic.

  • 3xfire3

    Sacredh,
    .
    “A donkey and a horse are related, but democrats and republicans (I’m being generous) are both humans of the SAME species and we’re nothing alike other than in physical appearance.’
    .
    I know. Most Republicans are much better looking then Democrats.

  • 3xfire3

    douginsandiego & Sacredh,
    .
    “Wow. How fascinating can a Comment get!!!!!”
    .
    Doug lay off my liberal friend sacredh.
    As a Conservative I find myself agreeing with his comment on this very important subject.
    .
    I too find my old Tee Shirts to be very comfortable and in retirement they have become somewhat of a uniform for me.
    .
    I also have a wife who is not understanding about my old Tee Shirts and I must fight her tooth and nail to keep her from throwing them away. Sometimes I must actually retrieve them from the trash can.
    .
    Women just don’t understand how important it is for us guys to feel comfortable.
    .
    My wife even wants to throw away my old jockey shorts simply because they have a few small holes in them. They are really comfortable, with the waistbands stretched out, as long as the holes aren’t in the bottom. She keeps saying what if you’re in an accident and they take you to the emergency room and see your holly shorts.
    .
    Doesn’t bother me.

  • coasty63

    You are 100% right.

    Keeping or dropping DADT, which was an exceedingly idiotic policy as it didn’t actually change anything, won’t change attitudes at all.

    I served in the USCG from 1963 to 1983 and, for the most part, the common theme among the people I personally served with, including those I knew in other branches of the military, was that they didn’t give one good damn if someone was gay. What we cared most about was that you were competent at your job and a team player. I may not have liked someone, hell, I might have detested someone for various reasons, BUT, we were part of a team and depended on each other. ‘Getting the Job done’ was our goal, and sexual orientation played no part of that. You may not socialize with some people after hours, but you still live and work as a team. I can’t say it enough, only bad things happen if you don’t live and work as a team.

    Sexual preferences during military operations aren’t a part of the equation of ‘Why It Happened’. Bluntly put, death or injury plays no favorites.

    Saying ‘gays’ can’t effectively serve in the military, for whatever reason, is a complete dis-service to those who, over the years, died or suffered serious injuries defending their country and comrades. Saying anything else, as exhibited in some of these comments, demonstrates either ignorance or an inability to get past personal prejudices.

  • apr2563
  • russpoter1

    Words used to describe OWE-bama at the local VFW hall –

    Traitor. Quisling

    Big BSer. Incompetent. Phony.

    Rookie. Blunderer. Fool

    Yup, they’re all wrong and BHO is really God. Not.

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